What controls eyeball size and orientation

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What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby blindsaypatten » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:00 pm

I created a set of eyeballs that works nicely in the basemesh in MakeClothes, but it doesn't get scaled and oriented like the built-in high-poly eyes.

When I export a Caucasian male mesh the default eyeballs are actually larger than the sockets and no longer pointing straight forward. I expect it has something to do with the cubes located in the center of the eyes, but I don't know what to do with them.
AvgMale-Wiremesh.png


With the eyes I made they stay pointing straight forward and within the socket:
AvgMale-Wiremesh2.png

This leaves the irises looking too small, relative to the default eyes.

Thanks for any help you can offer.
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Re: What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby Aranuvir » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:45 pm

Though I've never tried to create eyes, I still wonder about the purpose of the eye helpers...
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Re: What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby blindsaypatten » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:44 pm

Aranuvir wrote:Though I've never tried to create eyes, I still wonder about the purpose of the eye helpers...


I didn't think of it before but a lot of the helpers are used to place bones, maybe the ones in the eyes are just for placing and orienting the eye "bones" and I'm on the wrong track with thinking they are involved. But they are scaled, and I don't know how that would be used for bones. The eyes seem to be a special case as the only part of the body that is a separate object, at least when imported into Blender. I wonder if there isn't a special flag somewhere that's used to cause special handling. Inconveniently they are compiled so I can't easily look at the text files.
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Re: What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby wolgade » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:38 pm

blindsaypatten wrote: Inconveniently they are compiled so I can't easily look at the text files.

Not in the source distribution. What do you need? The mhclo file for the eyes? I just had a look at it and as a curious guy I tried to find in the docs which vertex numbers belong to which part of the base mesh. I know this list existed, but I couldn't find it. Let's reverse engineer it!

Body: Has 13380 vertices.
Tongue: 226 vertices
Joints: 992 vertices
Eyes: 144 vertices

I didn't do the rest. Assuming vertex count starts with 0 we have the following vertex numbers:

Body: 0 - 13379
Tongue: 13380 - 13605
Joints: 13606 - 14597
Eyes: 14598 - 14742

I didn't do a complete check, but on a first sight the mhclo file of the high-poly eyes only references vertices of the eye helper. So that's what the built-in high-poly eyes are fitted to.
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Re: What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby Aranuvir » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:27 pm

I might be wrong here, but eyes are treated as proxies, like clothes, hair, teeth, tongue, eyebrows and eyelashes. All of them are controlled by the body mesh and the helper geometry (obviously with one exception).
So, if you create targets, that influence the eye region, you probably should make sure eye helpers are influenced by the target, too, if necessary...
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Re: What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby wolgade » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:41 pm

Aranuvir wrote:I might be wrong here, but eyes are treated as proxies, like clothes, hair, teeth, tongue, eyebrows and eyelashes.

You're not wrong. There's a mhclo file for the eyes. If you read my post above you'll see that the built-in high-poly eyes are controlled by the eyes helper and only by the eyes helper for the simple reason that the according mhclo file only references vertices that belong to the eyes helper.
Aranuvir wrote:All of them are controlled by the body mesh and the helper geometry (obviously with one exception).

Which exception? Serious question. I don't know.
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Re: What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby Aranuvir » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:23 pm

You're not wrong.

I know, this was slightly rhetorical. ;)

Which exception? Serious question. I don't know.

Uh, I had better been more precise, here. I've been missing the helpers for eyebrows, though, thinking a second of it, they wouldn't make sense. Of course eyebrows are still treated like all other proxies with the exception of helpers. My bad... :oops:
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Re: What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby blindsaypatten » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:48 pm

Ah! So I should use the eye helper cubes as my left and right vertex groups in MakeClothes?

Well, that partly works, it comes out the right size now, but the shape gets distorted, which is no doubt why I had a *eyes vertex group before. But I don't know what cube vertices to use, if I use a vertex from each cube then scaling of individual eyes is too small, if I use vertices from one helper cube, then changes in the distance between eyes causes the eyes to expand.
Last edited by blindsaypatten on Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby Aranuvir » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:52 pm

As far as I know the cubes define joint positions for the default skeleton, you should use the cyan colored eye helpers.
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Re: What controls eyeball size and orientation

Postby blindsaypatten » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:39 pm

Aranuvir wrote:As far as I know the cubes define joint positions for the default skeleton, you should use the cyan colored eye helpers.

Thank you!

It's almost like they are there for this exact purpose...

That seems to work.
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