Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

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Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby drahozin » Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:56 am

Hi, gentlemen and ladies,

Currently I have a legacy app, which uses a human mesh, possibly exported from MakeHuman some time ago. I have .obj with 20K+ vertices, weights file (.mhw) for it and a .mhskel file, which, as I realize, makes a links between bone system and skin vertices.
I need to change the proportions of the existing skin mesh, e.g. making a child profile, and use it further in my legacy app.
After some looking at MakeHuman I think that legacy files I have can be converted into a proxy mesh and later applied as a topology - such as located in data/proxymesh/..../ABC.mhpxy. After that I can export .obj and use it.
So the questions:
1) is it possible to integrate my legacy data as a proxymesh, e.g. via MakeCloth Blender plugin?
2) If so, can you point me some videos regarding how to do this in Blender as I have very basic computer artist skills.

Thanks!
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Re: Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby joepal » Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:30 am

Yes, converting it into a proxy would be a good way forward. It involves a bit of work, but shouldn't be rocket science.

I'm not aware of any good video on proxy making, but roughly what you need is this:

* Blender at least 2.83
* MakeClothes2 from http://www.makehumancommunity.org/content/plugins.html (or use the one bundled with makehuman)
* Use MakeClothes to load a default mesh
* Load your own mesh
* Put them in the same space
* If needed move the vertices on your own mesh so that they are close to the corresponding vertices on the MC2 mesh
* Assign the same vertex groups on both meshes. You could try assigning everything to a "body" group first and see if that is sufficient, but in tight areas (crotch, armpits..) you might want to create more detailed groups to help the matcher along ("inner-thigh-left" etc)
* Produce the clothes
* Rename the resulting .mhclo file so that it instead ends with .proxy
* Put the file in data/proxymeshes
* See how it looks in MH

You might need a few attempts with the vertex group assignment before it looks ok.
Joel Palmius (LinkedIn)
MakeHuman Infrastructure Manager
http://www.palmius.com/joel
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Re: Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby drahozin » Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:18 pm

Thank you, I'll try your instructions.
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Re: Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby MTKnife » Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:13 pm

I think you also have to be careful to use the "Adult Caucasion" models, or you get a few minor problems.
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Re: Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby drahozin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:34 pm

Gentlemen,
just to clarify the possible result.
In fact I need to deform the human skin (but with different number of vertices) after the basic mesh in MakeHuman.
In Blender for mh_body I see only 3 vertex groups: "body", "torso" and "arms". Does it enough (I mean only 3 groups) to fit a human skin other basic skin? For example, if belly size is changed, does the appropriate skin-cloth change size? Or additionally to these vertex groups we have an assumption that the "cloth-skin" is always "on the top of "basic mesh", similar to two spheres of different diameter one inside another.
I have an assumption what cloth simulation is based on "triangle mesh - triangle mesh" or "triangle mesh-particles" collision, so I'm hesitating if only 3 vertex groups are enough for me.
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Re: Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby punkduck » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:18 pm

Hi

we made different topologies, For a topology usually one group is sufficient. The body itself. There are some cases when this will not work, demonstrated with the dress in this documentation:

http://www.makehumancommunity.org/wiki/Documentation:MakeClothes_Vertex-Groups

So if you create a character with a fat belly it would be possible that the nearest vertices of some parts of the belly will be the arm. Then you should take more than one group. Nevertheless then you will have other problems with clothes later.

Topology mostly means more or less details. The shape is normally made with targets (which are in fact identical to simple shape keys in Blender).
The pivot points of the skeleton must also fit to a topology, So you can't e.g. attach the arms in a lower position. So whatever you want to create: it could be you need both, a new topology AND a custom target.

Typical topologies are:

  • less vertices for games
  • a topology with more vertices for details (like muscles)
  • the gender topologies


The weights for the bones are taken from the base mesh ... as long as you do not supply an own .mhw file.
A topology with more vertices than the basemesh might need an own .mhw file to work better with the skeleton.

Like here:
http://www.makehumancommunity.org/proxy/punkelvs_female_proxy1.html

To create sth like that is more complicated, because weighting is rather complex. I may add an article about that, if needed.

The topology of Ava in the assets is inside the mesh (these are really clothes with delete groups). So the topology must not be bigger to cover something.
Normally it makes more sense to export (or use) only the new topology even when programs support to load both (additional topology and base-topology).
In mhx2 and also MPFB one can select base + topology (or "proxy") or only topology. Typically "only topology" is needed.

When you create an own topology which is bigger than the normal body what will happen with clothes?

Well that is interesting:

If the clothes delete the base-mesh under the clothes they will also delete the vertices attached from your topology. But ... I am pretty sure it will not work in some regions, like collar etc. so where the rims of the clothes are because parts will peek through.

So if it is not possible to create only the topology and do the custom targets later, what I would do is this:

  • take one of the bodies with helper in makeclothes
  • use MakeTarget to create a target/shape-key so it has a similar shape. If you want the character to wear clothes you need to deform both, body and helper.
  • save this target
  • keep a copy here :D
  • go back to makeclothes, press delete helpers
  • create the desired topology on this mesh with the target/shape-key activated(!)
  • Keep a copy before you press the create clothes button, because the shape-key will be applied
  • save the "clothes" / new topology

Working with a shape-key I explained here, we needed that for high-heels:
http://www.makehumancommunity.org/wiki/Documentation:CreateHeels

After loading the topology in MakeHuman you have to load the custom target as well and then "apply" it.
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Re: Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby drahozin » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:00 pm

Yes! I was able to make a cloth (using practically the same skin mesh as MakeHuman has as a basic mesh, but with much more vertices.
Just two pictures: meshes as source and the result.
2 bodies.png
meshes as a source

The result looks quite messy as the body and the "cloth" are intersected.
bplusc.png
result


And this sweet couple is deformable as I wanted at the beginning of my trip into MakeHuman!
But still I have not reached my goal - if I'm exporting this couple as obj I see that all vertices (body+cloth, 28k+ vertices) are written to .obj file, but I need only cloth vertices (20k+) to be put into .obj

If it is impossible, can my current "cloth" be used as a "rig"? I also have .mhskel file for pose and .mhw file for skin weights.
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Re: Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby punkduck » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:47 am

When you use the new topology in clothes folder, then it will be displayed like your "mess" ;) (this is normal).

When you use it as a topology the brown one would be not displayed.
There is no real trick. You should now move the files to the topology folder (called proxmeshes)
Change the name of the ".mhclo" file so that it ends with ".proxy".
That should do the job.

The export then should be one mesh (only the proxy with obj, proxy + basemesh with .mhx2 (you decide that when you import the mesh), same with MPFB.

A rig is the skeleton inside, .mhskel describes the bone positions and .mwm the weights.
Your shape of the mesh is rather similar to the standard one. It should already work with the skeleton, when you use it as a proxy.
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Re: Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby drahozin » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:54 pm

Thank you for kind clarification,

actually I have renamed .mhclo file into .proxy and put it into "proxymeshes" directory.

After that I created a character in MakeHuman and have used this new topology. And now (I mean after some deformation of original basic body mesh) I want to export only "cloth" (new body) topology into an .OBJ file. Is it possible to do inside MakeHuman or I need to do some Python work?
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Re: Need a kind advice for creation of topologies

Postby punkduck » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:25 pm

If you select your new topology and export it as a Wavefront ".obj" only the proxy is exported --- I just checked it.

I don't know but it is the worst method here tbh-

If you use blender use mhx2 export or use the MPFB plugin when you want to have a skeleton. When importing you can decide if you use proxy or default body (in mhx2 proxy is pre-selected), Both tools have import options. Normally the proxy (new topology) works as a full replacement.
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