Clothes from alpha 8

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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby brkurt » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:40 am

I will need to hear the final decision from Manuel, but it does sound ominous.
Marvelous Designer is definitely not open-source.

The solution for me is to download the trial version, and compare its drape-and-fold algorithms to the latest iteration of Blender. :geek:

The big difference is how the cloth deform modifier works in MD during an animation; it really is the best out there. (That's why WETA endorses it).

My thinking is that I should be able to approximate some of the deformations without transgressing the MD license.
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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby Manuel » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:37 am

I agree with Richard.
Practically the doubt is simple:

A = 3D works created in MDesigner and their 3D derivatives are allowed for non-commercial purpose only
B = MH output is CC0 and can be used for commercial purpose

A is no compatible with B...
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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby brkurt » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:04 pm

Manuel wrote:I agree with Richard.
Practically the doubt is simple:

A = 3D works created in MDesigner and their 3D derivatives are allowed for non-commercial purpose only
B = MH output is CC0 and can be used for commercial purpose

A is no compatible with B...


The matter is settled then; the licenses are incompatible. :(

Still, Makehuman needs a well-developed clothing library, and I have access to period clothes (the National Geographic from the 1918 issue to the present day) to draw (literally) upon. 8-)

Blender's draping algorithm is perfectly fine; the problem lies with the folding algorithm. :geek:

It sounds like I will need to develop fold morph targets; I will use the classical approach (daVinci) approach, since I am an artist not a programmer.
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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby Lemon » Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:39 am

Sounds great, brkurt.
Do you have any plans concerning hairstyles? Looks like the basic hair library needs update even more desperately than the clothing.
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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby brkurt » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Lemon wrote:Sounds great, brkurt.
Do you have any plans concerning hairstyles? Looks like the basic hair library needs update even more desperately than the clothing.


Yes; there's been a lot of good but disconnected work on hairstyles using Blender that needs to be collected and integrated.

If you search for 'braid' on the forum, you will see how much time I devoted to creating real braids, not just a UV map.

That's because real braids have to swing with the body; the best approach is to rig the braid (very much like Grendel's mother in Beowulf).

Someone back in 2009 actually offered to write a braid algorithm in Python, but I haven't seen that since.

Here is an older model, updated: http://www.geekopolis.ca/blender/fiveStringBraid1_267b.blend

This is a teaching model, so that you can understand how to braid manually.

Image
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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby duststorm » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:59 am

brkurt wrote:If I read the page correctly, it says that I can donate these to the Makehuman library, as long as it is clear there will be no remuneration.

Well, in theory it would be possible to add them to the library. But they can only be offered as separate downloads on the website and never packed into a MH release, because the license is not as permissive as the CC0 that we advertise for MH content.
The license would have to be packed with any content that is placed in the library, but it is kind of complex. I think the best option is to distribute them under a CC-noncommercial license, that would make things simpler.
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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby brkurt » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:56 am

My conclusion is that I should make clothes available from my own website http://www.geekopolis.ca, that way the new user could look over tutorials. The first one will be how to create realistic cloth folds, and use Marvelous Designer as my 'bar' to measure the quality. The problem in Blender is that the cloth folds along the long axis of the object (pipe folds), rather than along a traverse axis (zig-zag folds). I will separate out the clothes according to their historical period.

That way I can simply use a Creative Commons license for my own stuff, and post the MH stuff on the MH site; so that the licenses don't conflict. ;)
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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby duststorm » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:47 pm

brkurt wrote:That way I can simply use a Creative Commons license for my own stuff, and post the MH stuff on the MH site; so that the licenses don't conflict. ;)

Yes, but you still need to be careful with how you license things you created with Marvelous Designer. You cannot re-license them free for commercial use, as that would be breaking the MD license. The most free way of distributing your works is appending the MD license to them, but unfortunately the license is quite complicated.
Or you could simplify things and release them under a CC-nonCommercial license, but that takes away more use cases (MD only restricts selling models as assets, it does not restrict commercial use of the assets in works such as games or movies).
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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby Ghastly » Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:22 am

Marvelous Designer now no longer has a Personal License. With MD3 you have full commercial rights to anything you make with it so if you wanted to make your clothes public domain you could. Unfortunately they've also hiked the price of the software dramatically and are pushing for a subscription payment model ($40 a month unless you're willing to buy a year's subscription at once for $250).

Hopefully it'll only be a matter of time before some enterprising group of people create an open source alternative to Marvelous Designer. It would make a perfect companion to MakeHuman. This would probably make a good start
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Re: Clothes from alpha 8

Postby duststorm » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:08 am

Ghastly wrote:Hopefully it'll only be a matter of time before some enterprising group of people create an open source alternative to Marvelous Designer.

I doubt that. It's too specific.
But there are open source cloth simulations.
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