Suggestiong for working with 3DSMAX

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Suggestiong for working with 3DSMAX

Postby scottgcau » Mon May 19, 2008 7:12 am

OK so this program is looking much better than last time I checked in on it's progress and I can see there's plenty of potential there. I've been testing this out for the last couple of weeks, mainly focusing on manipulating the mesh in 3DSMAX after it has been exported. My goal is to create a character for animation.

A couple of things I have found so far that may or may not be caused by Makehuman:
- Mesh UVs are not welded together. Seams everywhere. No idea if this is part of the OBJ export or if it is the importer that cannot correctly weld the UVs together.
- The chest area of the mesh seems aimed at a female character. Could there be an option to swap in a male chest topology or even start with a male or female specific mesh instead of androgenous?
- Polygons for genital area are included in output regardless of whether they are actually used to represent genitals. Not a big deal to fix this up but it would be nice if the export could just automatically clean up the mesh in this area if the polygons aren't needed.
- Skeleton export only for Collada and only in the default T pose. I love the idea of including a skeleton that fits the skin since for extreme realism you are going to need this in order to add muscle system, etc. Unfortunately this only works for the default T pose and it doesn't look like the pivots line up exactly with either the skin or the Joints that are exported with Collada. I have noticed this mainly in the hands and feet.
scottgcau
 
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Re: Suggestiong for working with 3DSMAX

Postby Manuel » Tue May 20, 2008 2:55 pm

scottgcau wrote:OK so this program is looking much better than last time I checked in on it's progress and I can see there's plenty of potential there. I've been testing this out for the last couple of weeks, mainly focusing on manipulating the mesh in 3DSMAX after it has been exported. My goal is to create a character for animation.

A couple of things I have found so far that may or may not be caused by Makehuman:
- Mesh UVs are not welded together. Seams everywhere. No idea if this is part of the OBJ export or if it is the importer that cannot correctly weld the UVs together.


It's a "bug". Next version will fix it.

- The chest area of the mesh seems aimed at a female character. Could there be an option to swap in a male chest topology or even start with a male or female specific mesh instead of androgenous?


No...the final goal is to have an universal topology:
http://makewiki.aleppax.it/pmwiki/pmwik ... oid3DModel

- Polygons for genital area are included in output regardless of whether they are actually used to represent genitals. Not a big deal to fix this up but it would be nice if the export could just automatically clean up the mesh in this area if the polygons aren't needed.


We must think about a how to do this.

- Skeleton export only for Collada and only in the default T pose. I love the idea of including a skeleton that fits the skin since for extreme realism you are going to need this in order to add muscle system, etc. Unfortunately this only works for the default T pose and it doesn't look like the pivots line up exactly with either the skin or the Joints that are exported with Collada. I have noticed this mainly in the hands and feet.


Collada exporter will be rewritten in python...it will be improved...
Manuel
 

Re: Suggestiong for working with 3DSMAX

Postby scottgcau » Wed May 21, 2008 12:25 am

Manuel wrote:No...the final goal is to have an universal topology:
http://makewiki.aleppax.it/pmwiki/pmwik ... oid3DModel

I assume that this is because having 2 choices for starting mesh would then require 2 versions of code to manipulate them?

Manuel wrote:We must think about a how to do this.

I have no idea how your mesh data is stored or structured but it is easy to visually identify the vertices and polyflow that needs to remain in order to maintain the surface with much less polygons. Would it be as easy as removing the unwanted vertices (also then the connecting edges and polys) and then just creating new polys to connect the remaining vertices?
I don't have access to get screen captures at the moment so I've made this example:
Image
Right side is the result of removing vertices 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14 and then joining the remaining vertices to match the old flow.

Manuel wrote:Collada exporter will be rewritten in python...it will be improved...
Good to hear. I have been browsing through the available info but have yet to find the right spot to get an update on any release timelines you may have for the next version. Is this available or do you keep it hidden to avoid user disappointment if you don't make a target date?

Just had another thought: if you can create a skeleton to match the skin mesh exactly then would it also be possible to add some support for people who would like to use a muscle system? One of the hardest things with muscle systems can be finding the right points to attach muscles to. I assume that these attachment points will be pretty much standard across all humans and will be positioned relative to the skeleton so it should be possible to include these. Actually modelling the muscles to fit the skeleton and skin would be awesome but probably not easy so just if the attachment points could be included would be enough for people to be able to make their own muscles a lot faster.
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Re: Suggestiong for working with 3DSMAX

Postby Manuel » Wed May 21, 2008 5:44 pm

scottgcau wrote:
Manuel wrote:No...the final goal is to have an universal topology:
http://makewiki.aleppax.it/pmwiki/pmwik ... oid3DModel

I assume that this is because having 2 choices for starting mesh would then require 2 versions of code to manipulate them?


Not exactly...the code is one...but the package targets/pose/clothes etc. libraries should be duplicated...

Manuel wrote:We must think about a how to do this.

I have no idea how your mesh data is stored or structured but it is easy to visually identify the vertices and polyflow that needs to remain in order to maintain the surface with much less polygons. Would it be as easy as removing the unwanted vertices (also then the connecting edges and polys) and then just creating new polys to connect the remaining vertices?
I don't have access to get screen captures at the moment so I've made this example:
Image
Right side is the result of removing vertices 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14 and then joining the remaining vertices to match the old flow.


Yes, this is one of main ideas, even if it isn't so procedural...



Manuel wrote:Collada exporter will be rewritten in python...it will be improved...
Good to hear. I have been browsing through the available info but have yet to find the right spot to get an update on any release timelines you may have for the next version. Is this available or do you keep it hidden to avoid user disappointment if you don't make a target date?


It's not easy to have a perfect release date, in particular if we don't exit from experimental phase.
Anyway the core should be ready in a couple of weeks, later it need to be well documented, with some examples
(the 3d engine can be used for extra-makehuman tasks). When all is ok, with robust API and well done
coding rules, we start the "real" application.
Approx. 2 months before next release...

Anyway, take a look here to see the updates:

http://cia.vc/stats/project/MakeHuman

Just had another thought: if you can create a skeleton to match the skin mesh exactly then would it also be possible to add some support for people who would like to use a muscle system? One of the hardest things with muscle systems can be finding the right points to attach muscles to. I assume that these attachment points will be pretty much standard across all humans and will be positioned relative to the skeleton so it should be possible to include these. Actually modelling the muscles to fit the skeleton and skin would be awesome but probably not easy so just if the attachment points could be included would be enough for people to be able to make their own muscles a lot faster.


All is possible with plugins system. Next reelase has not "real"skeleton in base mesh, but add it with a plugin is trivial..

regards,

Manuel
Manuel
 

Re: Suggestiong for working with 3DSMAX

Postby lomaany » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:29 am

I've been shown that with selecting all meshes and freezing them, and then exporting the file, it would work, but the examples I've seen are using Maya and Softimage. I've tried freezing the Meshes in 3D Max and then exporting to .FBX, but it doesn't work.
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