Makehuman 1.3 and Blender 4.2 do not work well together

[nedfarrar]

I have been using Makehuman 1.2 for several years now on a Windows 10 computer with a Corei7 CPU and Blender 3.5. The process of creating characters in Makehuman and transferring them to Blender was clean and simple and seemed to work well. What minor issues I had with skin textures was easy to address with Makehuman's tools. I recently upgraded my computer to a newer model (Windows 11) and a Corei9 CPU. When I loaded the newest versions of both Blender and Makehuman, problems began. Some were to be expected — things can change between versions and may take a bit of getting used to — but others were not. Most notable, Makehuman and Blender no longer seem to work well together.

I installed MPFB2, only to discover that most of the assets would not load and the overall interface was confusing. I installed makehuman 1.3 and found the interface just a convenient and user-friendly as I remembered it but, when I moved a completed figure from Makehuman to Blender all sorts of problems cropped up. The mesh, which had seemed fine in Makehuman, suddenly had gaping holes in it. Usually these happened along the boundary between skin and clothes, as though the skin that was supposed to vanish beneath the clothing asset suddenly lost an extra polygon and so a ragged edge appeared along the seam. At other times, however, holes appeared in exposed mesh — in the small of the back or just below a character's navel. Makehuman 1.3's renders also seem not to work, though that is a feature I use less frequently.

All in all, this apparent incompatibility between Makehuman 1.3 and Blender 4.2 is making it impossible to work, and I am hoping the Makehuman team is aware of these issues and is working on a fix. There is a lot to like about both newer versions, but if they will not work together, it is all for naught.

If a fix is imminent, of course, I will hold on to both, but otherwise I am seriously considering whether I should uninstall Makehuman 1.3 and revert back to 1.2 — or is the problem in the connecting program, MPFB2, which I have noticed seems to want to overwrite Makehuman's features with its own presets. (The first inkling I had of this was when an African character suddenly developed blue eyes.)

I would really like some advice here as to how to correct these issues so that I can continue using Makehuman and Blender. Help will be much appreciated!

[joepal]

In this post, it is not apparent how you move a character from makehuman to blender. Since you say you are not using MPFB and MHX haven't been updated for blender 4.2, I'm guessing you are using an export to collada or fbx. These are unlikely to provide good results as the MakeHuman versions haven't been kept up to date with the changes on the blender side.

Whether you want to use MPFB as such or not, it is still the recommended way for opening characters from MakeHuman. If you enter the path to the makehuman user data in the preferences window in blender, you should then be able to simply open the makehuman save files ("MHM") by going to the "new human" -> "from presets" panel and click "import mhm". In order to get materials to look the most similar to MakeHuman, you can set the override dropdowns (on the same panel) for skin, clothes and eyes to "MakeSkin". To my knowledge, there is not anything in MakeHuman which cannot be opened in MPFB this way, if you have followed the installation instructions and installed the system assets asset pack.

[nedfarrar]

In this post, it is not apparent how you move a character from makehuman to blender. Since you say you are not using MPFB and MHX haven't been updated for blender 4.2, I'm guessing you are using an export to collada or fbx. These are unlikely to provide good results as the MakeHuman versions haven't been kept up to date with the changes on the blender side.

Whether you want to use MPFB as such or not, it is still the recommended way for opening characters from MakeHuman. If you enter the path to the makehuman user data in the preferences window in blender, you should then be able to simply open the makehuman save files ("MHM") by going to the "new human" -> "from presets" panel and click "import mhm". In order to get materials to look the most similar to MakeHuman, you can set the override dropdowns (on the same panel) for skin, clothes and eyes to "MakeSkin". To my knowledge, there is not anything in MakeHuman which cannot be opened in MPFB this way, if you have followed the installation instructions and installed the system assets asset pack.

I am using MPFB, in fact, and I am wondering if that might be part of the problem. I have been using characters that were originally created in MakeHuman 1.2. As I mentioned, there was never a problem transfering them into Blender (version 3.5) on my old computer. I moved all of my files over to the new computer and everything opens up quite well in MakeHuman 1.3 and looks excellent. However, when I import them into Blender (version 4.2) using MPFB, that is when problems develop. This is an character I am working with in Makehuman. For clarity, I have made him shirtless. You can see that there is no issue along the line of his trousers. However, after bringing him into Blender, there are visible gaps along this edge and also some inexplicable holes in his belly (and, though not visible here, also in the small of his back):

Image in MakeHuman 1.3

Same Character once loaded into Blender

I have found the check boxes to prevent MPFB from overriding the MakeHuman features (notably eyes) but it seems that I cannot save these settings, and need to go back and re-uncheck the boxes each time. I guess I'd prefer if MPFB defaulted to using MakeHuman's settings when importing but, as problems go this pales in comparison to the characters showing up in Blender riddled with gaps and holes. I am no programmer, but I am wondering if MPFB is deleting whole faces out of the mesh in the delete groups, while MakeHuman perhaps was not. In any event, something is definitely going on that needs looking at.

If it is a user error on my part, feel free to make me feel like a fool, I just want to start working with these characters again. But, I don't think it is.

Regarding MPFB, I do see that it has many features that show promise. The main reason I prefer working my characters first in MakeHuman is, I suppose, largely because I am comfortable with the interface. MPFB's I find confusing. And, I do seem to have had issues with assets loading. The skins are there and usable, but everything else just shows up as inviting me to "Unequip", which I do not understand:

Other assets show only the option to Unequip

The Skins are ready and able to load

[joepal]

Would you care sharing a blend file where these issues are visible? You can upload it under http://www.makehumancommunity.org/custom.html

[tomcat]

The skins are there and usable, but everything else just shows up as inviting me to "Unequip"

For me, the assets, except for skin and poses, just don't display.

[nedfarrar]

Would you care sharing a blend file where these issues are visible? You can upload it under http://www.makehumancommunity.org/custom.html

I have done as you asked. It is titled: "Blender Model With Issues Described In Forum" and was uploaded a few minutes ago.

I hope this helps!

[joepal]

Ok, looking at the specific asset (M_Trousers_01 by MindFront), I've made some observations.

First, if importing a default character via "new human" -> "from presets" -> "import mhm", then things seem to work as expected:

However, if importing exactly the same character via "new human" -> "from makehuman" -> "import human", I get similar results as you:

The online importer (ie the second path above) is known to be a bit fragile when it comes to correctly guessing delete groups, and for certain assets it will go wrong. Due to the very complex logic involved with this, it is unlikely this will be fixed in the near future.

The male_muscle proxy also seems to have trouble making it through the online importer, and the delete group is erronously spread up on the stomach. I have yet to figure out why.

When using the MHM importer, the proxy does not break in the same way. On the other hand it does not seem to get any delete group at all. This is a bug, and I've opened https://github.com/makehumancommunity/mpfb2/issues/221 for this. This I'll fix asap, and I've placed in the milestone for the 2.0.6 release.

Anyway, my first suggestion for improving the situation on your side would be to use the MHM path (which is the recommended approach these days) rather than the online import. This should also allow you to equip and unequip clothes inside blender.

[nedfarrar]

Ok, looking at the specific asset (M_Trousers_01 by MindFront), I've made some observations.

First, if importing a default character via "new human" -> "from presets" -> "import mhm", then things seem to work as expected:

The attachment delete_via_mhm.png is no longer available

However, if importing exactly the same character via "new human" -> "from makehuman" -> "import human", I get similar results as you:

The attachment delete_via_socket.png is no longer available

The online importer (ie the second path above) is known to be a bit fragile when it comes to correctly guessing delete groups, and for certain assets it will go wrong. Due to the very complex logic involved with this, it is unlikely this will be fixed in the near future.

The male_muscle proxy also seems to have trouble making it through the online importer, and the delete group is erronously spread up on the stomach. I have yet to figure out why.

When using the MHM importer, the proxy does not break in the same way. On the other hand it does not seem to get any delete group at all. This is a bug, and I've opened https://github.com/makehumancommunity/mpfb2/issues/221 for this. This I'll fix asap, and I've placed in the milestone for the 2.0.6 release.

Anyway, my first suggestion for improving the situation on your side would be to use the MHM path (which is the recommended approach these days) rather than the online import. This should also allow you to equip and unequip clothes inside blender.

Oh, I was so hoping this would be as simple as it seemed in your description. Unfortunately, it has not worked out that way. I just tried to import following your suggestion of going "new Human" --> "from presets" ---> "import MHM" and Blender opened up a window for me to navigate to an MHM file. I went into MakeHuman --> vlpy3 --> models and found the character, which did then import...minus skin, eyes, clothes, everything except the rig and for some reason — shoes. He was wearing shoes:

Imported Figure

Once imported, I was able to give him skin and clothes through MPFB — hurrah! — though the selection is more limited that I had through MakeHuman, and there seem to be poses in MPFB, but no expressions (did I miss those somehow?), and ... at the risk of becoming unpopular with the design team, I still find MPFB's interface confusing and somewhat clumsy as compared with MakeHuman's. It also lacks many of the assets/materials/topologies, etc. that I have been using in MakeHuman plus the aforementioned expressions (which I expect i will eventually discover are missing because I somehow overlooked them during set up)

You mentioned a 2.0.6 release above. Do you think that will solve these issues? If so, do you know when it will be ready?

While following the path you outlined is an improvement over my previous situation, it is very far from ideal. I expect if thes issues cannot be rectified, a better course would be to revert back to MakeHuman 1.2, but I am hoping not to have to follow that if better options are on the horizon.

[joepal]

You do not need to wait for the final release to get the fixes. They will be available in the nightly builds as an when they have been implemented. I've pushed a fix for the missing delete group on the proxy now, so that will appear in tomorrow's nightly build.

For the rest of the issues, I suspect parts of it are a question about proper documentation. For this, I've added https://github.com/makehumancommunity/mpfb2/issues/223

I'm going to spend some time documenting the configuration and import paths. Once that has been done, I will be interested in hearing which problems remain.

Regarding when 2.0.6 will be actually released, there is no specific date. The prognosis is that it will be in the next few weeks, but that's a prognosis, not a promise. You can follow the progress here: https://github.com/makehumancommunity/m ... +stable%22

The main hurdle for the release is the extensions platform. There is no way to predict how long time that will take.