Never symmetrical

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Never symmetrical

Postby TioMegamanX » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:35 am

May be a very old bug or something I don't know the secret about, but it looks like importing from MH never results in a symmetrical mesh unless I use the default figure and nothing more, even my own clothing made symmetrical and exported to MH results in something asymmetrical when importing back with a figure, is there something I am missing?
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Re: Never symmetrical

Postby fake_Person » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:58 pm

maybe you can send a picture. pls I've never had this problem before
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Re: Never symmetrical

Postby TioMegamanX » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:51 am

fake_Person wrote:maybe you can send a picture. pls I've never had this problem before

It seems to happen with a lot of non-default topologies, this one is the generic male with some modified sliders, as you can see the middle section moves around and causes asymmetry which becomes a pain when trying to move vertices around.
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example.png
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Re: Never symmetrical

Postby punkduck » Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:43 pm

Hi

Well it does not really work, although I corrected some targets in MakeHuman in the new version.

Especially for proxies the vertices of one side will not follow exactly the same vertices of the standard body on the other side.

I always have this problem (also in Blender itself). So I tried something different. After a mesh is completed I save a mirror table.

It also works for MakeHuman because I noticed that the vertex-numbers used with export are always identical.

So workflow would be:
Typically export a standard mesh (or proxy) which is normally symmetrical when unchanged and create the mirror table with that one.

After that use this table for the other exports to correct them in blender.

For the standard body you will find such a table in the blender tools (it is part of maketarget).

this one: https://github.com/makehumancommunity/community-plugins-maketarget/blob/master/maketarget/data/hm08.mirror

I started with cli function on my linux box to do this, but meanwhile I wrote blender plugins for 2.79 and 2.8x.

https://github.com/black-punkduck/MakeHuman-Helpers

Some documentation here, how to do the table etc.

I work with this plugin for weighting, symmetry, shape keys etc, ... last function I added was to re-calculate (normalize) shapekeys to 0-1 to work with e.g. Unreal Engine. (not yet documented),

https://github.com/black-punkduck/MakeHuman-Helpers/wiki/blender279weightplugin.md

The latest character I created has a new weighting, symmetrical no-volume groups, shape-keys etc. For me that is easier. I often accidentally destroy blender topology but with that simple ASCII file in background it works.

Maybe it helps :)
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Re: Never symmetrical

Postby fake_Person » Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:43 pm

you could go to edit mode press alt+z and delete have of the humans verities. and got to modifier tap and use x modifier. and your done. i use this on all my clothing's I made... (but non have reached the the makehuman surface because non re very good nor ready yet
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Re: Never symmetrical

Postby punkduck » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:31 pm

fake_Person wrote:you could go to edit mode press alt+z and delete have of the humans verities. and got to modifier tap and use x modifier. and your done. i use this on all my clothing's I made... (but non have reached the the makehuman surface because non re very good nor ready yet


:(

Ouch that would posibly result in a catastrophe. Really. This was my first idea, too.

No you can't normally. Changing the vertex order by deleting and recreating one side will result in a lot of new problems,

Blender is not only geometry.

You will not have shape-keys (if already created, they are simply destroyed) and your weights are connected to the bones of the other side, because weights are simply copied.

This will not work as expected!

Furthermore you have to put the vertices which are called "mid" in mirror table manually to the center x=0 (they have themselves as a mirror vertex). The mirror modifier does not center them! There is a possibility to connecting them, if they are near enough. And even that should be controlled, if derivation is too big it even connects wrong vertices.

Furthermore you destroy information of the UV Map. So texture will not work.

The mirrortable contains information what blender can't know, like the self-mirroring x=0 coordinates. It tries to set the existing vertices to correct position. It is not "invasive".
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Re: Never symmetrical

Postby fake_Person » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:11 am

Oh i forgot vertex groups......
but it seems to work when i make my clothing. thats weird tho
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Re: Never symmetrical

Postby TioMegamanX » Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:48 am

punkduck wrote:Hi

Well it does not really work, although I corrected some targets in MakeHuman in the new version.

Especially for proxies the vertices of one side will not follow exactly the same vertices of the standard body on the other side.

I always have this problem (also in Blender itself). So I tried something different. After a mesh is completed I save a mirror table.

It also works for MakeHuman because I noticed that the vertex-numbers used with export are always identical.

So workflow would be:
Typically export a standard mesh (or proxy) which is normally symmetrical when unchanged and create the mirror table with that one.

After that use this table for the other exports to correct them in blender.

For the standard body you will find such a table in the blender tools (it is part of maketarget).

this one: https://github.com/makehumancommunity/community-plugins-maketarget/blob/master/maketarget/data/hm08.mirror

I started with cli function on my linux box to do this, but meanwhile I wrote blender plugins for 2.79 and 2.8x.

https://github.com/black-punkduck/MakeHuman-Helpers

Some documentation here, how to do the table etc.

I work with this plugin for weighting, symmetry, shape keys etc, ... last function I added was to re-calculate (normalize) shapekeys to 0-1 to work with e.g. Unreal Engine. (not yet documented),

https://github.com/black-punkduck/MakeHuman-Helpers/wiki/blender279weightplugin.md

The latest character I created has a new weighting, symmetrical no-volume groups, shape-keys etc. For me that is easier. I often accidentally destroy blender topology but with that simple ASCII file in background it works.

Maybe it helps :)

Well, I would need to take some time to learn exactly what to do, I wasn't expecting those issues from topologies already shipped with MH or them being heavily affected by the sliders even when I symmetrize using the program's function for that.
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