VADER_wip

Works in progress and technical screen shots.

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VADER_wip

Postby grinsegold » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:05 pm

coming soon... (maybe blendswap instead?)

The helmet is pretty low poly, since i like to model with active subsurf, so curves can be modelled with minimal vertex count. But the mask has a more complex topology with sharp areas as well as smooth ones, and hence i could either go highpoly there in order to follow the rule of quads-only, or use edge crease values (image 3). But MH does not i/o edge crease. My plan is to store the respective vertices in the delete-group. The user then would have to import the model into blender, select the grouped vertices and apply a crease weight manually. That's why i like the idea of instead post the ready rigged model at blendswap. Any suggestions?
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Re: VADER_wip

Postby grinsegold » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:59 am

Alright, deadline for suggestions concerning the topology (whether low or rather high poly) is up. Decisions where made. For the sake of blender noobs i gave up the plan to store vertex groups for a subsequential edge crease weight setting. Downside of that decision is higher polycount.

But don't feel sad. I still need some advice how to bind the respective parts - some things like the gizmos at the belt and that one at the chest will surely be separate objects with rigid binding, but what about the shoulder-armor? The shinpads? I'd love to know your opinion what parts you would keep as one piece and how you would do the binding.
Further, i'd like to know what you think about leaving the cape unsimulated. After importing the model into blender, the user then can run the cloth simulation after he posed the character, avoiding to move cape-vertices while posing the arm at that stage. I never used helper geometry, mainly because i'm too stupid to understand the documentation. Maybe someone could help me there, finding the right decision. It even might result in a new video tutorial for dumbasses like me ;) Major unclarity: Why can't i just use the "human" vertices for skinning? And is it better to break the cloth into smaller bits, or is it possible to make one working piece of cloth, containing say both capes, the shinpads, boots, shoulderpads etc.?
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Re: VADER_wip

Postby wolgade » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:21 pm

Cool.

About your questions as far as I feel able to answer them:
what you think about leaving the cape unsimulated.

Interesting idea, but requires a bit of work in Blender after import (it does anyway). You have to change the weights to make sure that the cape is not affected by the armature. The result will, on the other hand, look much better than a deformed and uv stretched cape.
Why can't i just use the "human" vertices for skinning?

You don't want your clothes being influenced by body details, but follow body shape in a smoothed way. Female breast is one example.
helper.jpg
body.jpg

A t-shirt e.g. won't follow the lower part of the breast (yellow), but look like the red helper (green). Glueing your t-shirt to the body vertices will give weird results when changing breast size or volume, because it gets deformed the same way the body does. Worst case: You change the diameter of the areola and your t-shirt gets distorted in that area. Instead it shouldn't change at all.

BTW: Why not send your Vader to the monthly contest? Topic is "male" and Vader definitely is male. This way we would have at least one contestant. Not much to choose from, but not a problem in your case as you usually win these contests.
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Re: VADER_wip

Postby CallHarvey3d » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:35 pm

very cool! i love stuff like this
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Re: VADER_wip

Postby Aranuvir » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:41 pm

+1

May the force be with you!
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Re: VADER_wip

Postby grinsegold » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:06 pm

wolgade wrote:BTW: Why not send your Vader to the monthly contest? Topic is "male" and Vader definitely is male. This way we would have at least one contestant. Not much to choose from, but not a problem in your case as you usually win these contests.


They do the contest again? Nice.
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Re: VADER_wip

Postby grinsegold » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:21 pm

I still would like to have some help at the decision how to clothify say the helmet. I definitively want the mask separated, so i can make a fat lady wear his helmet and a light-whip. Sounds funny. Funny makes people laugh. Laughing is healthy. So that seems to be a good idea. But how to bind the helmet and mask in order to prevent strange behaviour in case of head rotations. I could glue the helmet to three vertices at the head mesh, so it still will be scalar but less sensitive for deformations, right? I'm thinking loud. Sorry. But i have to sort that out eventually. So, the helmet should rotate with the head, but also stay fixed relative to the mask. So the mask has to be part of the helmet. But then, to avoid intersections where neck meets head and in case of vivid head rotation, the shoulderpad has to be part of the helmet as well, right? Where does that end... Does anyone see a better solution than to live with intersections of the mask-neck into the shoulderpad?
The shinpads will be un-rigid, i think. It's not worth the fight to get it work as it should inside MH. Peronally i would propose to delete the weights of the upper leg bone influence in blender manually after importing - if you indeed plan to render old Vader on his knees. I think i will merge the boots and the shinpads. The gloves will be separate, since they can be reused on other characters. The outer cape will be separated.
I'd love to give the inner cape as well as the main suit a decent texture resolution. The cape should have streched wrinkles at the belt compression, and the suit is a sort of pinstriped baloon-silk (don't know yet if i didn't bit more there than i can chew...). But having two separate mshes so close together as in the area of the belt, that usually causes problems, right?
The gizmos will be rigid - 4 objects, now that i found the documentation that tought me the use of *.

Please feel free to share your thoughts.
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Re: VADER_wip

Postby grinsegold » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:43 pm

I followed these instructions:

http://www.makehumancommunity.org/wiki/ ... tex_groups

http://www.makehumancommunity.org/wiki/ ... ng_a_sword

I tried binding to one as well as three verteces, with and without asterix. What i haven't tried is normal cloth binding, since that's not what i am going for.

but the result was:

Any ideas what went wrong?
Attachments
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Bildschirmfoto zu 2017-03-15_21-21-51.png
Bildschirmfoto zu 2017-03-15_21-30-42.png
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Re: VADER_wip

Postby punkduck » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:46 pm

This looks a bit weird ;)

One vertex + non-rigid special group will result in an unknown size I guess ... but where did you put the three vertices? These vertices should span a triangle containing most of the geometry of your asset. For my bicycle helmet I used 2 vertices near the ears and one on the backside of the head. When I had to do the mask I would at least try to take two rigid groups (like upper and lower part), because the mask covers the whole face. Then I'm able to use up to 6 vertices to define the volume (especially the height) also.

But I'm not sure, if that is the problem. I had some unknown effects when I accidently changed my "average female with helpers" (in my case in position and size). Did you leave this object unchanged? If not, you can throw it away and reload it again. Of course you then have to create the vertices again ...

I could be wrong but I'm using these *-groups quite often and I only had to change one of the three vertices sometimes to make the asset fit to the character in a better way.
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Re: VADER_wip

Postby Aranuvir » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:54 pm

... or subdivide the helmet in a *left and *right group and define two triangles forehead + occiput + left/right temple ...
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