MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby brkurt » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:44 pm

MargaretToigo wrote:I have learned quite a lot about MakeClothes and how and when it works or doesn't, its features, limitations and bugs -- but I still have no clue whatsoever about what that Offset Scaling thing is supposed to do.

With the suit, I got the best fit and deformations when I used the tights and only the tights to "Create Vertex Groups From Selection" -- I also assigned the appropriate vertices on the body to the Delete group. I tried many other ways, which I have described upthread, and of all the results, this was the relative best for this particular mesh.

What I have discovered is that in its current state, MakeClothes does not produce flawless or even nearly flawless results on complicated asymmetrical meshes, and that a truly universal fit is not possible for most items -- though some can get pretty close to it. But for my purposes, it doesn't really need to be any of those things as I spend a few minutes making a character in MakeHuman, and then hours or even days refining it in Blender. The power of MakeClothes is the convenience of being able to dress characters in MakeHuman, which puts you halfway to production before you even import them into Blender.

Here is a better render of my suit models, it has anti-aliasing and better color balance...

suit models2.png


How do you define asymmetry in terms of mesh topology? I've assumed that term meant L/R symmetry, such as Blender's Mirror modifier.
This is a real issue when using Marvelous Designer, so much so that their programmers created a ZBrush exporter to solve this problem.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby grinsegold » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:42 pm

MargaretToigo wrote:but I still have no clue whatsoever about what that Offset Scaling thing is supposed to do.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMipZQZmFKA ; Minute and second: 10:08
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby MargaretToigo » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:09 pm

brkurt wrote:How do you define asymmetry in terms of mesh topology? I've assumed that term meant L/R symmetry, such as Blender's Mirror modifier.
This is a real issue when using Marvelous Designer, so much so that their programmers created a ZBrush exporter to solve this problem.


Asymmetrical meshes are not the same on the left and right sides like you get with the Mirror modifier.

I started modeling the suit jacket -- based on the upper quarter of the tights helper -- with a Mirror to do the sleeves, jacket body and lapels. But a suit jacket is not symmetrical, so I applied the Mirror modifier and adjusted the center of the jacket, pulling the left lapel out and over the right, and then adding the buttons.

Now, the pants and shirt are symmetrical -- also made with a Mirror modifier -- I modeled them separately and then joined everything together to make one mesh.

Most clothing in reality is asymmetrical because most people are asymmetrical and wearing clothing with a lot of symmetry calls attention to it. It's the reason why the vast majority of hairstyles feature a side part, rather than a middle part.

I've never used Marvelous Designer or Zbrush and I know very little about either.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby MargaretToigo » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:30 pm

grinsegold wrote:
MargaretToigo wrote:but I still have no clue whatsoever about what that Offset Scaling thing is supposed to do.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMipZQZmFKA ; Minute and second: 10:08


I had not watched that one before -- the documentation on *rigid groups for hard items is pretty clear. I watched the later parts of her series on MakeClothes quite recently to see what she does to get a universal fit, but her example is simple and symmetrical, so of course it has a more universal fit than more complicated asymmetrical items.

But once again, she is working with an earlier version of MakeClothes and the options are different. Here's a screen cap...

Screen Shot 2017-12-22 at 7.13.47 AM.png



The current, latest and greatest version, however, looks like this...

Btmc09.png
Btmc09.png (20.74 KiB) Viewed 2611 times


Now, VscorpianC explains what to do with Scale Correction, and it makes perfect sense. But there is no such option on the newest MakeClothes.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby Mindfront » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:34 pm

I haven't had the time to read all posts but will doing so as soon as possible as I think I can learn alot of your tryouts and experimenting. I have spent lots of time trying making unisex one size fits all clothes but in the end it often fails and seems faster to do two version adapted to respectively base mesh and bind the male version to the "Average Male (without helpers)" and the female version to the "Average Female With Helpers". Unisex clothes looks best with Base Mesh With Helpers". I almost everytime make own vertex group assignment but even then its hard to get some parts to deform nicely.

And thank you for your excellent clothes , they are a welcome part in my closet :D
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby MargaretToigo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:07 pm

Mindfront wrote:I haven't had the time to read all posts but will doing so as soon as possible as I think I can learn alot of your tryouts and experimenting. I have spent lots of time trying making unisex one size fits all clothes but in the end it often fails and seems faster to do two version adapted to respectively base mesh and bind the male version to the "Average Male (without helpers)" and the female version to the "Average Female With Helpers". Unisex clothes looks best with Base Mesh With Helpers". I almost everytime make own vertex group assignment but even then its hard to get some parts to deform nicely.

And thank you for your excellent clothes , they are a welcome part in my closet :D


I have determined that one-size-fits-all is just not possible when there are so many potential ages, body types and gender settings, but that it is possible to get pretty close to one-size-fits-most for many items.

There are actually two issues with regard to clothes, getting them to fit various humans in rest pose, and getting them to deform nicely when the humans are posed/animated. The latter is rather easily fixed with weight painting in Blender, though sometimes I have to get in there and assign weights vertex by vertex in the armpits and crotch.

Now, some warping of clothes on different body types can also be fixed with proportional editing and smoothing in Blender, such as that which occurs around necklines and waistlines. But when there are a bunch of polys all clumped and twisted together in the armpits and crotch, it's very difficult. Even when such an effort is successful, the UVs have to be re-mapped so the textures don't look all mangled. I don't even do this any more, I just run MakeClothes again and again until it looks right or I give up and start working on another project.

For the suit, I tried many different combinations of helper items and custom vertex groups, but I got the best result by using the Average Male for fitting, and only the tights helper from the Average Male with Helpers to "Create Vertex Groups From Selection" and run MakeClothes.

I am working on a female version of the suit, with different neckwear and a skirt instead of pants, and I will first use a combination of the tights and skirt helpers to create vertex groups for MakeClothes.

And I must also thank you for all the great clothes you've shared here, they are among my favorites, especially M_suit, Dress01, and the Oxford shoes.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby brkurt » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:38 pm

One of the big design issues with MakeClothes (that I have) is that various types of folds have not yet been calculated for.

Here is a finished example of a design I came up with:

Image

The under-bust folds feature quadrangles rotated 45 degrees (diagonal). When subsurfed, they create the natural-looking zig-zag folds I needed.

Marvelous Designer is getting close to this approach, but each garment pose is a 'one-of', and so not compatible with other 3d suites.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby MargaretToigo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:25 am

I think I've gotten as close as I can get to a nearly one-size-fits-most suit for male humans. I am still working on a female version.

The latest features a bowtie and shirt buttons. The jacket and pants are essentially the same as the previous version with a tie but without buttons because they wouldn't be seen anyway.

I ran MakeClothes on this suit mesh
using just the tights to "Create Vertex Groups From Selection,"
using custom vertex groups with one vertex each on the tights for the buttons and bowtie,
and using *rigid plus three vertices on the tights for the buttons and the single vertex custom group on the bowtie.

It seems that the best results -- even though they are not gonna ever be close to perfect -- come from the simplest method, just using the tights without any custom groups. As a matter of fact there is not a whole lot of differences between the results obtained from the three workflows above.

I have put this in the User Assets, along with three alternative Materials.
Once again, I have made all my stuff CC0 so it's open for anyone who wants to improve upon it.

Suit-tie-JacketModels6-2.png


Suit-tie-JacketModels6-blue.png


Suit-tie-JacketModels6-brown.png


Suit-tie-JacketModels6-blue-gold.png
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby Joshea » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:32 am

I know its been a while since the original post, but the following may help.

When you're finished modeling, in edit mode, item selected - AlT S numbpad .01 or .02 (will get a great fit without proportional editing)
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