A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

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A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby Rorkimaru » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:31 pm

This is a methood i think you guys should use to have clothes in makehuman. it is very simple and powerful and with use of texturing and a few layers you can make any kind of clothes with virtualy no hit to the framerate.

http://rorkimaru.bravehost.com/Clothing%20design%20for%20makehuman.htm

http://rorkimaru.bravehost.com/Clothing ... ehuman.htm

at least concider it, it is a very good technique and very user friendly. i think it fits in with make human perfectly
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Re: A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby pistacja » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:46 pm

I've used something similar, I've made a dress from a series of copy-paste splines just slightly modifying them to fit the body mesh. It's quick, easy and no sophisticated cloth simulation is needed.

The splines outline:
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/920/splinead5.png
And a render (it's maybe that good but... well, ok I don't have any excuse :P ):
http://pistacja69.deviantart.com/art/Red-Dress-2-79011842
This post was made thanks to Me, Myself and I.
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Re: A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby Sethren » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:52 pm

This slightly reminds me of certain methods used in a program called Reyes Infográfica S.L. Virtual Fashion. I used the demo but it was very slow to use and it's UI does not respond very well. I used the demo version of Optitex Runway Designer and was very impressed by the UI, feature sets, it's fast response and the work flow is so easy, you get working with it in a few minutes upon opening the program.

Some of us require cloth simulation though. It is at times needed to imitate certain fabrics and how they respond to gravity, wind shear and body movement.
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Re: A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby Rorkimaru » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:13 am

pistacja - thats very cool looking, good job. the thing is if you dont require much cloth simulation then that methood lets you make anything (with a few layers). the important thing is getting the UI right. since MakeHuman is (or apears to be) aimed at non modelers i think a basic set up where you can click and drag a ring (or a few rings) to morph the clothes mesh and some sort of miroring set up to streamline production. i was playing with the idea a bit earlier after i posted and made a simple little dress in MetasequoiaLE for my make human character. i was working on my old pc with a roler mouse though so im not too proud of the results but with carefull making of the start meshes this works suprisingly well (it was the best clothing item i had ever made). another good thing is that it responds to mesh smoothing very well.

Sethren - I must admit using Virtual Fashion as inspiration for this. although the methood is slightly different. VF creats VERY high poly clothes and does cloth simulations where as this creates low LOD clothing so it can be used in real time and probably wont do cloth simulation because part of the form fitting methood is based on the position of the rings. that said by adjusting and turning the rings a bit and with skillfull texturing you can mimic cloth movement for stills but it wouldnt be a part of video making yet. (remember MH is open source so it cant develop every feature overnight). im sure there is a way that this could be used to create cloth simulation, infolding along verticies or something to that effect. (thats how i did it in meta but that wasnt real time)
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Re: A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby Sethren » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:09 am

Another thing i liked while using the OptiTex demo was you could drag and drop clothing and accessories right onto the character and later if you want with a modual plugin you could simulate the cloth to fit an imported mesh.

Has anyone seen what was being worked on as far as clothing developments for MakeHuman. Here a some links with some very impressive stuff going on.
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/public/blog/in ... 7&m=4&d=10
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/public/blog/in ... 7&m=3&d=14
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/public/blog/in ... 7&m=2&d=21

If there can be a way to fake cloth without simulation real well, then great. New ideas are good and if it takes time i am a patient person. Still, one problem is how to imitate the different types of fabrics.

Even some hair development here:
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/public/blog/in ... 7&m=2&d=12
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/public/blog/in ... 7&m=7&d=10

Also in this PDF article there is something very interesting for cloth fitting.
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/docs/articles/ ... _Et_Al.pdf
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Re: A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby Rorkimaru » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:11 pm

They look realy good but i cant deny being slightly disapointed. the cloth models are very high poly count. since i look towards makehuman as a posible alternative for character creation for my computer games this looks like it will be far too polygonicaly costly.

i was planning on creating a similar program to makehuman myself before i found it but decided to hold off because this looks so promising. however it increasingly apears that this is more aimed at rendering than real time work... kind of disapointing.

i may have to get hold of a nice low poly base mesh and figure out a way of programming morphs into a character creation program. the only problem with MH is the high poly density.

i was giving more thought to cloth simulation, this could be achieved by having a fixed distance between verticies and just alowing the angle to be changed. after generating a mesh like this with points for folds all that needs doing is aplying a simple mesh smooth to round it off and you have a perfect cloth.

different fabrics could be simulated by applying "rigidity" to thease joints.

the only way to do different cloth types using the methood i described earlier would be to use referance photos ore something and work with what looks right. this is fine for me as i dont need huge model detail but i can see how it would limit renders...

I think i may end up writing my own "makehuman" style program. I would probably use a different route to them anyway. alowing the user to sculpt polygonal hair using vector protrutions and using the clothing methood from VF that i talked about in my first post. MH is very promising but downscaling models can be harder than creating them so if they keep up the high poly thing they have going its useless to me. it would be nice if it had a low poly UI and allowed mesh smoothing before exports
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Re: A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby Sethren » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:41 am

Yes, i agree, it would be nice if it had a low poly UI and allowed mesh smoothing before exports. I think if there would be an option to have several levels of sub-division for cloth addition as well as what is currently being done with the human mesh then at least there are two ways one can have it. For gamers perhaps there can be a LOD slider? and for high detail artists like myself we need high poly-counts and a lot of sub-division. There needs to be 2 options when using MakeHuman.
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Re: A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby Manuel » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:45 am

Rorkimaru wrote:They look realy good but i cant deny being slightly disapointed. the cloth models are very high poly count. since i look towards makehuman as a posible alternative for character creation for my computer games this looks like it will be far too polygonicaly costly.

i was planning on creating a similar program to makehuman myself before i found it but decided to hold off because this looks so promising. however it increasingly apears that this is more aimed at rendering than real time work... kind of disapointing.

i may have to get hold of a nice low poly base mesh and figure out a way of programming morphs into a character creation program. the only problem with MH is the high poly density.

i was giving more thought to cloth simulation, this could be achieved by having a fixed distance between verticies and just alowing the angle to be changed. after generating a mesh like this with points for folds all that needs doing is aplying a simple mesh smooth to round it off and you have a perfect cloth.

different fabrics could be simulated by applying "rigidity" to thease joints.

the only way to do different cloth types using the methood i described earlier would be to use referance photos ore something and work with what looks right. this is fine for me as i dont need huge model detail but i can see how it would limit renders...

I think i may end up writing my own "makehuman" style program. I would probably use a different route to them anyway. alowing the user to sculpt polygonal hair using vector protrutions and using the clothing methood from VF that i talked about in my first post. MH is very promising but downscaling models can be harder than creating them so if they keep up the high poly thing they have going its useless to me. it would be nice if it had a low poly UI and allowed mesh smoothing before exports


About the clothes algo, we are working to import in MH any obj and use it as cloth:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53

so will be simple build a clothes library.

EDIT:
The images above are referred to a previous idea: obtain the most of clothes using an extended base mesh + clothes morph.
Because the variety of clothes to obtain, morphing the "base clothes mesh" the poly count was not so low...
Anyway it was never released, because we have decided to use a different approach. So we are working on a different, more flexible solution,
to provide both low poly lib and hight poly version...
END EDIT

About low poly: we are working on some methods to export a perfect low poly mesh.

About fork instead help:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41

regards,

Manuel
Manuel
 

Re: A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby Sethren » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:37 pm

Importing clothing and clothifying it, nice idea. I was wanting to create several garments anyways. :)

Now question. The old clothing library that was shown in the older post archives. Are those going to be made available anyways for basic starter clothing?
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Re: A simple idea on how to do clothes in MakeHuman

Postby Manuel » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:44 pm

Sethren wrote:Importing clothing and clothifying it, nice idea. I was wanting to create several garments anyways. :)

Now question. The old clothing library that was shown in the older post archives. Are those going to be made available anyways for basic starter clothing?


Maybe an idea...I'll see to release them separately in next days...
ciao,

Manuel
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