Better neutral pose

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Better neutral pose

Postby entiresia » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:36 pm

Hi, I'm entiresia and I make 3D prints of nude statues on home-made 3D printers. I write about my experiences at http://3Dprintednudes.blogspot.co.uk
I like to find and then try and copy interesting poses and then print them as 3 dimensional sculptures. I am severely restricted by the EULA of the product that I currently use and am seriously consider switching to a method that gives me more freedom to share and/or sell my designs.

The biggest problem I face with many character posing tools as that the shoulders and hips look horribly distorted when fully flexed.
Look at the LEFT shoulder, hip and knee in the picture below, to see what I mean.

Image

I now believe I may have found a solution for this. To make the mesh deform most naturally, I believe the resting position should be halfway through the range of movement for every joint in each direction.

The problem is that most meshes are designed with the body in a 'neutral' T or A shaped pose - but that does not provide the full range of joint movement.

Think about the hip. Its greatest range of movement is forward flexion. From standing you can only bend your leg backwards about 30 deg, but you can bring your knee forwards, right up to your chest. To provide the full range of movement, why not design the mesh with the neutral position being half-way between these two extremes?

Ever wonder why the skin on your knees and elbows is so wrinkly? It's because you need lots of spare skin to allow the joints to flex fully, otherwise it would tear. The neutral position for elbows and knees is bent to about 90 degrees.
I would like to see a mesh designed to look good with the joints all positioned mid-way through their range of movement, with the hope that when the arms are fully raised or the hips are fully flexed, you don't get those horrible distortions. I have moved the RIGHT arm and leg in the picture above so that the joints are mid-range.

What do you think?
entiresia
entiresia
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:44 pm

Re: Better neutral pose

Postby brkurt » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:38 pm

Ah...this brings back memories of my first experience with Makehuman. Yes, you are correct, bent knees and arms are the way to go. In fact, if you go back to earlier versions of Makehuman, you will discover that the splash screen is an adult male in a fetal position. There should still be a white paper in the documents section about why the fetal position is the best starting point for a realistic human mesh; I haven't read it in a while. :geek:

When it comes to design philosophy, someone could write their master's thesis on all the ideas incorporated into Makehuman since 2001. ;)
brkurt
 
Posts: 1091
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:49 pm

Re: Better neutral pose

Postby Manuel » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:44 pm

Hi Entiresia,

what rigging are you using? Also are you using FK or IK ?
The pose posted above is easy to obtain with mhx rigging, and I'm pretty sure it should be much, much better.
I'll post you some examples later.
Manuel
 

Re: Better neutral pose

Postby Manuel » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:37 pm

entiresia wrote:Hi, I'm entiresia and I make 3D prints of nude statues on home-made 3D printers. I write about my experiences at http://3Dprintednudes.blogspot.co.uk
I like to find and then try and copy interesting poses and then print them as 3 dimensional sculptures. I am severely restricted by the EULA of the product that I currently use and am seriously consider switching to a method that gives me more freedom to share and/or sell my designs.

The biggest problem I face with many character posing tools as that the shoulders and hips look horribly distorted when fully flexed.
Look at the LEFT shoulder, hip and knee in the picture below, to see what I mean.

I now believe I may have found a solution for this. To make the mesh deform most naturally, I believe the resting position should be halfway through the range of movement for every joint in each direction.

The problem is that most meshes are designed with the body in a 'neutral' T or A shaped pose - but that does not provide the full range of joint movement.

Think about the hip. Its greatest range of movement is forward flexion. From standing you can only bend your leg backwards about 30 deg, but you can bring your knee forwards, right up to your chest. To provide the full range of movement, why not design the mesh with the neutral position being half-way between these two extremes?

Ever wonder why the skin on your knees and elbows is so wrinkly? It's because you need lots of spare skin to allow the joints to flex fully, otherwise it would tear. The neutral position for elbows and knees is bent to about 90 degrees.
I would like to see a mesh designed to look good with the joints all positioned mid-way through their range of movement, with the hope that when the arms are fully raised or the hips are fully flexed, you don't get those horrible distortions. I have moved the RIGHT arm and leg in the picture above so that the joints are mid-range.

What do you think?
entiresia


You can see an example of correct usage here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9796&hilit=shoulder#p20969
The rigging will be improved again in next versions, but it's already sufficient a decent result with your pose.
Image
Manuel
 


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