Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

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Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby a_p » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:12 pm

Hi, first post here.

I'm looking at using MH as a part of our modeling pipeline for game production. We are a small team, and MH looks like it can be a big time-saver. After looking at the latest nightly build, here are some questions I have.

1. We have a standard topology flow that we like to use on all of our human characters that differs from all of the mesh options currently available. Maya is our 3D software of choice, so for now the plan is to generate a base mesh in MH, then just re-topologize in Maya. Would it be possible to contribute the topology that we use to the MH project? Having the option to export with our topology would be much more efficient than re-topologizing every character. The main topology I'm concerned with is in the face. And we're mainly looking at generating different base heads that we want to have the same edge-flow.

2. I've seen other posts asking about getting the T-Pose inside of MH. I don't mind the A-pose position for the arms since it helps with deformations, but for our rigging solutions, the legs present a problem. We need a character to be standing straight, so the the hip joint is directly above the ankle. Again, currently we'll just fix this in Maya by exporting an FBX, manually rotating the legs, then removing that skeleton and rigging the model with our own tools. Would it be possible to have a slider that blended between the A-pose and T-pose? Having the options to blend the arms and legs separately would also be really great.

3. Is the Joint Placement for the Rigs in MH meant to be anatomically correct? Just curious as this could be helpful when placing our joints for our own rigs inside of Maya.

Lastly, I'm sure this has been asked and answered many times, but I want to be absolutely sure... Can my company use Make Human as part of our pipeline for projects that we sell commercially?

Thanks, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how Make Human continues to develop!
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Re: Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby duststorm » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:54 pm

a_p wrote:1. We have a standard topology flow that we like to use on all of our human characters that differs from all of the mesh options currently available. Maya is our 3D software of choice, so for now the plan is to generate a base mesh in MH, then just re-topologize in Maya. Would it be possible to contribute the topology that we use to the MH project?

Certainly this is possible. MH supports alternative topologies in the form of proxies.
If you want to contribute a topology we'd gladly create a proxy for it that works with MH.


a_p wrote:2. I've seen other posts asking about getting the T-Pose inside of MH. (...) Would it be possible to have a slider that blended between the A-pose and T-pose?

In the future we want to support alternative rest poses, but this will not be finished for the A8 release.
You can however correct the rig with a simple script in Maya, much like what we do here with blender. It's always the same rotation that has to be applied on the joints.

MH also supports alternative rigs, perhaps this can save you some time re-rigging. Otherwise you can probably define your rigging once and copy it to other characters by copying vertex weights over to vertices with the same index.


a_p wrote:3. Is the Joint Placement for the Rigs in MH meant to be anatomically correct? Just curious as this could be helpful when placing our joints for our own rigs inside of Maya.

I don't know, honestly. I think not.


a_p wrote:Lastly, I'm sure this has been asked and answered many times, but I want to be absolutely sure... Can my company use Make Human as part of our pipeline for projects that we sell commercially?

Yes. You are free to use whatever you create in a commercial software. We would always be thankful if you would mention us in your game credits, but this is not required. ;)

The only limitation is that if you want to use parts of the MH code or morphing system to create an in-game character creator or something similar, you will have to release your code under the AGPL license.
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Re: Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby a_p » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:12 pm

Thanks for the answers!
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Re: Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby Manuel » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:22 pm

a_p wrote:3. Is the Joint Placement for the Rigs in MH meant to be anatomically correct? Just curious as this could be helpful when placing our joints for our own rigs inside of Maya.

Hi a_p,

yes, but it's an approximation.
For example the shoulder is a sort of average point of the very complex multi-node articulation..
In some cases there are errors due modelling process that altered the joint vertices (bugs to fix).

About the custom topology, I'm interested to know what are the particular purposes that will be covered by this new topology...and of course, yes, we can include a new topology in our nightly build (there are some little bureaucratic things to do, for example we must be sure you are the copyright owner of the mesh and you authorize us to release it in MH).


Best,
Manuel
 

Re: Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby a_p » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:02 pm

Hi Manuel,

The purpose for the new topology:

We are using Unity3D as our engine and have specific polycounts that we are trying to stay under. The lower proxy meshes currently available in MH are certainly a low enough polycount, but the topology is not what we need. Specifically, the edge flow in the face and upper body, as most humans in our projects will be seen from the waistline up for the majority of the time.

This is what I typically reference in regards to topology:
http://www.hippydrome.com/Modeling.html

http://www.cgmeetup.net/home/tips-trick ... oductions/

Now, those examples are a higher polycount than we need for our games, but the basic edge flow is what I'm looking at.

Thanks
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Re: Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby duststorm » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:14 pm

While I understand the need for a lower poly mesh, yet that has a higher polcount than our current proxy meshes (they are rather very low-end). I don't understand why the standard basemesh would not fit these edgeloops.
In modeling the basemesh Manuel has referenced the material you have shown, and these qualities, among with some others, have resulted in our current basemesh. Our topology should be better because it has no degenerate faces, no triangles, and no 6-poles. None of the meshes shown in your examples have these qualities.

What do you think is suboptimal about it?
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Re: Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby a_p » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:50 am

There's nothing "suboptimal" about the basemesh. We are just accustomed to working with different topology, specifically in the shoulders and mouth area, that deforms well with our rigs. The current basemesh is without a doubt a great starting point for our models. I was simply hoping to have less re-topologizing to do inside of Maya.
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Re: Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby Manuel » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:07 am

a_p wrote:There's nothing "suboptimal" about the basemesh. We are just accustomed to working with different topology, specifically in the shoulders and mouth area, that deforms well with our rigs. The current basemesh is without a doubt a great starting point for our models. I was simply hoping to have less re-topologizing to do inside of Maya.


If you provide me a sketch, we will be happy to add the new topology as soon as possible.
Manuel
 

Re: Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby duststorm » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:34 am

Manuel wrote:If you provide me a sketch, we will be happy to add the new topology as soon as possible.

Or even better if you could give us a mesh with the desired topology.
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Re: Topology, T-Pose, Joint Placement Questions

Postby a_p » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:22 pm

duststorm wrote:
Manuel wrote:If you provide me a sketch, we will be happy to add the new topology as soon as possible.

Or even better if you could give us a mesh with the desired topology.


Once we finalize exactly how we want our topology to be, I will be more than happy to give it to the MH project as another proxy option. Doing a re-topo to make sure we get what we need may be the best initial option, because what we need is somewhere in between the current basemesh and lower poly proxies.

Thanks!
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