Verv 1.1 release

[joepal]

I'll take a look at it tonight and see if it works in Unity too.

Ok, apart from the fact that I don't know what the hell I'm doing when I'm playing around inside Unity:

Binary FBX imported directly from an MH export

[wolgade]

The purpose was to stop someone from writing a plugin with a simple forEach loop that exported the entire internal MakeHuman database structure and then be allowed to use that dump under a CC0 license.

And that's exactly how I understood the license until today. Prevent people from from just stealing your stuff.

It is unfortunate that the general wording also happen to cover MHX2.

It's not unfortunate, it's a desaster. It prevents anyone from modifying and enhancing the source code. This is not only true for MHX2, but for any other legitimate plugin or modification someone might write. That's exactly what Open Source doesn't want to happen.

if all the needed info is possible to save to an FBX file

and if Blender's FBX importer is even able to read it. You said it yourself: FBX has to be developed by reverse engineering. FBX is ruled by Autodesk and they want to keep on ruling. It might be a standard, but it's not open in any way. Open source projects can't just go and license a lib from Autodesk.

Anyway, it's fair, legtimate and necessary to protect MH from being robbed, but it's also important not to turn the Open Source approach into a joke.

[joepal]

It's not unfortunate, it's a desaster. It prevents anyone from modifying and enhancing the source code. This is not only true for MHX2, but for any other legitimate plugin or modification someone might write. That's exactly what Open Source doesn't want to happen.

You're welcome to modify the source code in any way you want as long as you fulfill the obligation stipulated in AGPL. That's the same as in any other AGPL-licensed application.

Stuff such as mongodb, launchpad and ghostscript are licensed AGPL, and people happily use those anyway.

[wolgade]

You're welcome to modify the source code in any way you want as long as you fulfill the obligation stipulated in AGPL. That's the same as in any other AGPL-licensed application.

Sure, but it makes the exported work from my modified MH governed by AGPL. That's not acceptable in many cases and I don't think it was ever intended by the project.

I decided to choose the pragmatic way to deal with the problem. I'm pretty sure that MH won't file a lawsuit against me as long as I play by the rules, but that's not an option for companies.

[moinator]

Would it be an option as middleway to put the mhx2 plugin on the makehuman website to make it official and allow people that used it in the past and even the original author of the plugin (who is in the same boat with all others regarding that) to use it with CC0? This would not require to rethink or touch the current license model and you already know that it's not made to do some foreach loop.

[wolgade]

Would it be an option as middleway to put the mhx2 plugin on the makehuman website to make it official [..]?

IMHO it never should have been removed from MH for the simple reason that there was and is no replacement for it, but that's a discussion we already had a while back and I don't want to repeat myself. I have no hope that MHX2 gets official again.

I spent a few thoughts on my pragmatic approach: Until yesterday it was common sense that the license restrictions were not meant to limit artists or anyone else interpreting the license restrictions in a sensible way. Restrictions exist to stop people from ripping off the project. There's was and is no intention to stop people who use, enhance or improve MH. So what happens if I formally violate the license by doing something that is considered completely ok by the project? Absolutly nothing! Violations of copyrights or licenses have consequences once the owner of these rights takes action. If the owner doesn't, there are no consequences at all.

[Oscalon]

Thomas, do you have any plans to expand mhx2 to be able to handle the new makehuma rig+facerig, and to be able to make IK controls for it?

If not, do we have information or docs on how exactly the current IK rig is setup? I know we have an FK and IK rig and controls to switch them. If I can get more details, I may be able to recreate something.

I want to use the new rig and facerig, but I don't want to have to manually setup IK for every character. There's got to be a way to get that automated again.

[joepal]

Would it be an option as middleway to put the mhx2 plugin on the makehuman website to make it official and allow people that used it in the past and even the original author of the plugin (who is in the same boat with all others regarding that) to use it with CC0? This would not require to rethink or touch the current license model and you already know that it's not made to do some foreach loop.

You are welcome to suggest this on the bugtracker. Since a while back, I don't have any influence over what ends up on the official homepage (I only do "unofficial" community stuff), so you'd have to bring it up with Manuel. And I don't think he reads most of what's written on the forums.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was somewhat sceptic though, since he's the one who wanted to keep the core distro focused on standard formats only.

[ThomasL]

Sorry for not chiming in on the discussion which seeems to mostly concern myself. I have been away from the Internet, enjoying the belated Swedish summer which has finally arrived.

Thomas, do you have any plans to expand mhx2 to be able to handle the new makehuma rig+facerig, and to be able to make IK controls for it?

Not really. When mhx2 was created the rigging code already existed, and the work needed to convert it to Blender was relatively minor. If there is a demand I could try to add the same IK controls to the official MH rig. However, the default rig was not designed with a control rig in mind, and some standard tricks will not work. E.g., to distribute twisting along a bone one often splits it into two pieces, letting the first part handle bending and the second twisting. However, this trick only works if the two parts are exactly aligned, which is not the case for the upper arms and the thighs.

If not, do we have information or docs on how exactly the current IK rig is setup? I know we have an FK and IK rig and controls to switch them. If I can get more details, I may be able to recreate something.

No, there is no such info. From the top of my head, here is some of the key features:

There are four type of bones in the limbs:
1. The deform bones, on layer 31. Their names start with DEF- as do the vertex groups.
2. Helper bones on layer 15. The deform bones have Copy Transform constraints to these bones.
3. FK bones on layers 4, 6, 20 and 22. Manipulated by the user in FK mode, and control the helper bones with a Copy Transform.
4. IK bones on layers 5,7,21,23. Manipulated by the user in IK mode, and also control the helper bones. Whether FK or IK is active is controlled by object properties like MhaArmIk_L etc.

The roll angles of the upperarm and forearm bones are chosen such that X is perpendicular to the plane spanned by shoulder, elbow and wrist joints. The IK arm bone (hidden on layer 15) has an IK contraint to the IK hand. The pole angle is 90 deg. which works with this particular choice of roll angle. I'm not sure how the roll angles are chosen in the default rig, but if they are different my rigging strategy runs into problem.

I am sure that I have forgotten a lot. It is probably best to deconstruct the mhx rig in Blender and see how it is constructed. [/quote]

[ThomasL]

Would it be an option as middleway to put the mhx2 plugin on the makehuman website to make it official

No, this will not happen. The original MHX exporter generated a lot of disagreement within the MH team. Basically I was unhappy that others decided over something that I had created and spent a lot of time on, and Manuel did not want to be responsible for something that he did not control. Moving MHX2 outside of MH solved both problems; I gained control and Manuel was relieved of responsibility.