organisation

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organisation

Postby Carton » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:16 pm

Hello,
This is the second time I try a version of MH.
I liked it from the beginning but started using it less because of little support and tuts.
When I look at this site it seems there is not a lot of activity or involvement.
Also I see developers answering questions.
2 years later and still only a few and very specific tutorials.
I also noticed the face expression option is (temporarily?) gone.
By now there should be a gigantic collection of props/clothes, there isn't. There is some mention of it on the forum where they talk about copyright issues. That shouldn't be a problem.
All these things lead me to believe you should reorganise and get some structure.
I think you have a great product and it deserves better than this.
Even if you don't want to make money from it (which is nice) you still need to run it more like a business. You need some kind of PR person who can give it a boost and get more people involved.
More people will make more tuts and more props, more support from their peers. This will get more people into it and so on.
Get some people to answer the forum questions, most of them don't need a devellopers' expert view. It is nice but you might get overworked and your time can be spent on bigger issues.
I don't know if there is a technical reason for it but the face expression being gone for instance seems strange. Once a feature is in users expect it to stay in. Again it looks like you have no clear view of where you are going.
It gives the impression that MH is made by a bunch of mad, brilliant scientists working in a chaotic lab.
All this is ment as constructive criticism and I don't want to sound negative.
I admire your work and think it's a shame it is not as big as it could be.
So let me know what you think.
Bye
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Re: organisation

Postby Aranuvir » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:52 pm

Sorry, but I completely disagree. It seems to be your first time you ask questions on this forum. So how can you say their won't be help?
I thought about a long answer, but I will make it short: perhaps just download the nightly build, you will find many of your missing things, like expressions, look at the bug tracking system (activity and roadmap) to see what happened in the last year. Use Google and Youtube if your looking for tutorials.

It gives the impression that MH is made by a bunch of mad, brilliant scientists working in a chaotic lab.

As you mentioned above, these "mad" scientists are working for free, in their free time.

I guess there will be a long reply to your essay very soon.
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Re: organisation

Postby brkurt » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:33 pm

Carton wrote:Hello,
This is the second time I try a version of MH.
I liked it from the beginning but started using it less because of little support and tuts.
When I look at this site it seems there is not a lot of activity or involvement.
Also I see developers answering questions.
2 years later and still only a few and very specific tutorials.
I also noticed the face expression option is (temporarily?) gone.
By now there should be a gigantic collection of props/clothes, there isn't. There is some mention of it on the forum where they talk about copyright issues. That shouldn't be a problem.
All these things lead me to believe you should reorganise and get some structure.
I think you have a great product and it deserves better than this.
Even if you don't want to make money from it (which is nice) you still need to run it more like a business. You need some kind of PR person who can give it a boost and get more people involved.
More people will make more tuts and more props, more support from their peers. This will get more people into it and so on.
Get some people to answer the forum questions, most of them don't need a devellopers' expert view. It is nice but you might get overworked and your time can be spent on bigger issues.
I don't know if there is a technical reason for it but the face expression being gone for instance seems strange. Once a feature is in users expect it to stay in. Again it looks like you have no clear view of where you are going.
It gives the impression that MH is made by a bunch of mad, brilliant scientists working in a chaotic lab.
All this is ment as constructive criticism and I don't want to sound negative.
I admire your work and think it's a shame it is not as big as it could be.
So let me know what you think.
Bye


Your main concern seems to be facial expressions. There was a decision by the design team to use poses, rather than shape keys (morph targets), and the present 1.1.0 mesh has the bones in place, but not the helpers yet.

If you want to start working on facial expressions, I would suggest you look at this post.

http://forum.makehuman.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10750

It is an in-depth study of visemes, which is what should come first. Facial expressions are easy once the visemes are created.
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Re: organisation

Postby joepal » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:54 am

It gives the impression that MH is made by a bunch of mad, brilliant scientists working in a chaotic lab.


I actually like this image :)

Anyway, while your description of the current state of being is essentially accurate, you also do not see the juridical intricacies that so far has blocked us from accepting certain kinds of user contributions. Traditionally, we've had to be careful since we simply could not afford ending up in court over a copyright case. The fact is that there are commercial entities within the same area, and if a user contributed an asset which originated from their software or was covered by their license, and that asset found its way into an official MH repository, then we'd be in a world of hurt. This would concern everything from textures, to body shapes to clothing (all of which could very well be covered by a third part license without us being able to detect it). It's possible that the risk has been exaggerated, but in any which way, it isn't negligible.

This said, it isn't as if we're complacently accepting this situation. I'm not going to reveal too many details yet, but work is underway to remedy some of the problems we have in this area.
Joel Palmius (LinkedIn)
MakeHuman Infrastructure Manager
http://www.palmius.com/joel
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Re: organisation

Postby joepal » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:58 am

Also, somewhat sarcastically regarding the state of existing tutorials...

youtube.png
There's this new little-known site called "youtube"... maybe you could check it out.
Joel Palmius (LinkedIn)
MakeHuman Infrastructure Manager
http://www.palmius.com/joel
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Re: organisation

Postby Manuel » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:14 am

Manuel
 

Re: organisation

Postby duststorm » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:18 pm

Carton wrote:I don't know if there is a technical reason for it but the face expression being gone for instance seems strange. Once a feature is in users expect it to stay in. Again it looks like you have no clear view of where you are going.
It gives the impression that MH is made by a bunch of mad, brilliant scientists working in a chaotic lab.

Actually we do know where we are going, and we openly communicate about this: http://bugtracker.makehuman.org/project ... an/roadmap

It is true that MakeHuman lacked structure in development before, which was the case for releases called "alpha", but we have worked hard on changing this situation. When you say some features have disappeared, this is because you are comparing an alpha version with a stable (v1.0 and higher) version. In the past, new features, often unstable or lacking the level of quality that we want to achieve, have been introduced ad-hoc. Maintaining or fixing these takes time, which is why we decided to cut back on features and only release when it is done. We also separated unstable/still in development features from the official source repository for this reason.

Expressions will come back, in a better form and fully supported by the software, but this time they will be included when they are ready, not when the mad scientist thinks it is time to include them ;)


As for the PR and support people: yes I completely agree. But because this is an non-commercial effort, we don't have the resources to pay people to do this. They will have to volunteer to help the project. As of yet we haven't found the people to perform this task for longer periods of time.
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Re: organisation

Postby Carton » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:37 pm

Thanks to all for your replies.

@ brkurt: Since this was posted in the newbie section you can understand that visemes look a bit complicated. I will not be doing a lot of stuff in the summer anyway so I will gladly await the 31/7 release with the 'prefab' options and take it from there.

@ joepal: I think I didn't express myself correctly. There may be a lot of MH documentation and tuts if you look. I took your advice and looked at this obscure youtube site which you recommended. ;)
The problem is this, I can try the same for blender and get almost 100x more hits. Then you start discarding. How many are tutorials? Are they outdated? In a language you understand? Are they relevant to the subject?....
So from my experience in Blender I can say that more than once I ended up emptyhanded and had to diy or get help from a forum.
Like I said before in MH you start dicarding from only 1 percent of the hits blender has. You can guess the result.

Anyway, I will be working on my tan instead of on computers and will be back by september to bother you with questions. (unless you start working like crazy on those damn tuts!) :lol:
No seriously, take a well deserved break and enjoy your summer.
Bye
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Location: Belgium

Re: organisation

Postby fillipyang7 » Mon May 23, 2022 3:36 pm

Carton wrote:Hello,
This is the second time I try a version of MH.
It is additionally vital to take note of that in the affirmation exposition composing administration to buy dissertation you can get the assist you with requiring recorded as a hard copy composed papers of any intricacy on time and without counterfeiting
I liked it from the beginning but started using it less because of little support and tuts.
When I look at this site it seems there is not a lot of activity or involvement.
Also I see developers answering questions.
2 years later and still only a few and very specific tutorials.
I also noticed the face expression option is (temporarily?) gone.
By now there should be a gigantic collection of props/clothes, there isn't. There is some mention of it on the forum where they talk about copyright issues. That shouldn't be a problem.
All these things lead me to believe you should reorganise and get some structure.
I think you have a great product and it deserves better than this.
Even if you don't want to make money from it (which is nice) you still need to run it more like a business. You need some kind of PR person who can give it a boost and get more people involved.
More people will make more tuts and more props, more support from their peers. This will get more people into it and so on.
Get some people to answer the forum questions, most of them don't need a devellopers' expert view. It is nice but you might get overworked and your time can be spent on bigger issues.
I don't know if there is a technical reason for it but the face expression being gone for instance seems strange. Once a feature is in users expect it to stay in. Again it looks like you have no clear view of where you are going.
It gives the impression that MH is made by a bunch of mad, brilliant scientists working in a chaotic lab.
All this is ment as constructive criticism and I don't want to sound negative.
I admire your work and think it's a shame it is not as big as it could be.
So let me know what you think.
Bye

The fact is that there are commercial entities within the same area, and if a user contributed an asset which originated from their software or was covered by their license, and that asset found its way into an official MH repository, then we'd be in a world of hurt.
Last edited by fillipyang7 on Thu May 26, 2022 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: organisation

Postby RobBaer » Wed May 25, 2022 5:25 pm

fillipyang7 wrote:The fact is that there are ...

The fact is, you have replied to a 7 year old thread. Complaints made then have little relation to the current MH situation.

Since this is your first post, I'd suggest that you spend a little time yourself looking at the app, the support and the forum. If you are still a fan after that offer up some help.
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