Some Suggestions for Female Models

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Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby marioschluse » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:03 pm

- Like some others, I think the female faces are to masculine.
I mean, escpecially the jaws and the chin are too strikingly. It would be better if they were smoother.

- In my opinion, the breasts are placed kinda low, so it would be cool if you could make some slider for breast deformations and position as well.

- And I noticed, that Asian eyes are missing. Maybe you could add some slider for eyes settings.

Hope you can take my suggestions under consideration.
Thanks
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Re: Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby raziel2001au » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:33 pm

I do agree with your breasts comment, they are definitely placed too low, and really, this kind of thing should be adjustable. I think where the breasts are right now should be the bottom of the slider, at its highest point they should pretty much start bulging just where the armpit begins. I usually fix the breasts by hand in Blender whenever I export a model since I think in general the shape doesn't really lend itself well to the sexy type character, which I tend to go for. I'm not that great at it though, so it would be nice if they added some additional customization in that area.

As for your other comments, it is quite difficult to get that sexy female type character out of makehuman without tweaking the export a lot in Blender. You can actually do a lot of changes to the face to make it more feminine, but you have to spend the time to get it looking good. As for asian eyes, there are actually lots of variations of asian eyes as far as I can tell.

As a whole, there are some female curves and things that are just missing or not very well defined on that model which makes the otherwise decent model not quite as good and feminine as it could be. I do know of someone who *might* be willing to make some awesome female-only targets for us if Manuel is willing to add them in - problem is, both of them would have to agree to it, not sure how well that would go, but I can ask...
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Re: Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby Manuel » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:40 pm

raziel2001au wrote:
As a whole, there are some female curves and things that are just missing or not very well defined on that model which makes the otherwise decent model not quite as good and feminine as it could be. I do know of someone who *might* be willing to make some awesome female-only targets for us if Manuel is willing to add them in - problem is, both of them would have to agree to it, not sure how well that would go, but I can ask...


Hi.

please, make some sketches about the missing things and the wish list.
I'll see to add them very soon.

Best,

Manuel
Manuel
 

Re: Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby raziel2001au » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:11 am

Hi Manuel, this is quite a big post, hope you don't mind...

Most of the items described by the OP is quite vague, a person can't really get any concrete requirements out of them, but I think I will talk about general issues and desired features for the torso mesh. I think the masculine variation of the mesh is fine, but unfortunately the female variation of the torso mesh is plagued with masculine features that ruins the mesh a bit. I'll base my discussion on the diagram I created below, and I've also included two example photos that show the same items on real people:
http://img576.imageshack.us/i/wishlistn.jpg/
http://img135.imageshack.us/i/example1p.jpg/
http://img687.imageshack.us/i/example2j.jpg/

Due to the NSFW nature of the images, I have decided to link to them instead of doing an in-forum post of them. I'll discuss each item based on the color I used on my diagram and photo examples.

BLACK:
The most concrete feature request the OP mentions in his post is that the breasts start too low on the body, this varies from person to person, but I agree, they do start bulging very low on the mesh. I think we need a target that raises the entire breast portion of the mesh so that they basically start bulging just below the arm on its highest setting. Another way this might be implemented would be to add something similar to the "Nape to waist" & "Waist to hip" measurement feature, but make it for the upper breast to the arm. See my diagram (Ideally, we should be able to compress the geometry to shift the entire breast mesh up to close the gap between the two black lines).

PINK:
Due to the topology of the mesh, I'm not sure we can really address everything I wish we could, but in favor of making the female mesh more feminine, I hope we can get a target or soemthing else to fix this one: On a female the rib cage comes down at a much sharper, more acute angle than it does on a male, they also go lower down the body when compared to a male rib cage. To me, the female rib cage looks quite masculine and doesn't really come down at the correct angle. The pink line indicates roughly where I would expect the rib cage to run, but it may be best to refer to the included photos.

GREEN:
Usually, females have a bit of a fatty layer next to and below the navel area, raising that area around the navel in a circular arc. If you look at photo example 1, even when a fit female is stretching back, the area around the navel is still quite fleshy. Example 2 shows this as well. In the female mesh variation in makehuman, the mesh curves inward next to the navel area which doesn't look right. I think the entire area around the navel should be revised for the female mesh to look more feminine, with the circular arc below and around the sides of the belly button. There could be a mopth target to increase/decrease the depth of the fatty layer, but it probably wouldn't apply to the male mesh.

BLUE:
This one could be a morph target: Fit females tend to have a prominent line running down to their belly button, occasionly it will also continue below the belly button and may even extend over the rib cage as well (see the included photos to see what I am referring to). This detail is in the current mesh, but it should be an option to shift it deeper into the mesh to make it more prominent.

WHITE:
In my diagram, on the white line, you usually see quite a strong change of angle and the rest of the area runs a bit lower on the right hand side. This is best seen in example photo 1. In the female mesh, it looks like this feature was attempted, but it is too subtle and possibly not in the correct place.

Also, there is a buldge (another rib cage issue?) between the breasts that is slightly too high, it should be brought in a bit so it doesn't stick out as much.

BLACK is probaly number 1 on my wish-list. Followed by getting the female torso looking more feminine, starting with PINK and GREEN. Some of these could be morph targets, BLACK most certainly should be its own morph target. I also think there should be a single "female curves" morph target that makes some feminine features like WHITE stand out more. I think for GREEN, the belly button area should be revised, the topology is a little difficult to work with in that area, but given how difficult it is to fix that, I think the vertices should be shifted around so it forms more of a circular pattern around the belly button, and the depths should be tweaked so that the fleshy area sticks out in the female variation instead of sinking in like it would on the masculine version.

Regards,
Raz.
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Re: Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby Manuel » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:00 am

Thanks raziel2001au.

This is the kind of reply that really contribute to improve the software.
We will work on these features in next days (I'm working on hairs too, and they make me busy, but I'll look at it).

Best,

Manuel
Manuel
 

Re: Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby raziel2001au » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:16 pm

Manuel, I hope you grabbed a copy of that diagram, it seems to have been removed!!! I have no idea why. I just get "This photo has been removed" when I click on the link for no apparent reason.
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Re: Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby Manuel » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:42 pm

Ooops, I've not saved it.
But don't worry, I remember most of it.

Today I've modified the topology, in order to add a better rib cage.
Note that I can't add or remove vertices, due the morphing. I'll committ the new mesh in svn soon.

Best,

Manuel
Attachments
ribs.png
Manuel
 

Re: Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby raziel2001au » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:15 am

Excellent, I've managed to get imageshack to e-mail me my original diagram, apparently it violates their terms of service :roll: - anyway, here are the files, uploaded as a zip using my fileserve account:
File name: Examples.zip File size: 265.61 KB

The ribs look better, but the actual angle they come down at is still not quite right though, on females, the angle they lower at is pretty sharp, refer to the photo examples rather than the diagram and you'll see what I mean.

Thanks, I know I'm creating more work for you :), but at least we've got the diagram back.
raziel2001au
 
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Re: Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby Manuel » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:52 pm

raziel2001au wrote:
The ribs look better, but the actual angle they come down at is still not quite right though, on females, the angle they lower at is pretty sharp, refer to the photo examples rather than the diagram and you'll see what I mean.


I think the topology now is enough good to have the sharp ribs in female model. The image above is about the standard model (no male, no female, it's the pure base). I'll try to improve the female morph and post here the result.

Thanks, I know I'm creating more work for you :), but at least we've got the diagram back.


We need good feedback :-)

Best,

Manuel
Manuel
 

Re: Some Suggestions for Female Models

Postby raziel2001au » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:15 am

Manuel wrote:I think the topology now is enough good to have the sharp ribs in female model. The image above is about the standard model (no male, no female, it's the pure base). I'll try to improve the female morph and post here the result.

Oh, yes, that makes sense, seems great! :)

Out of interest sake, have you decided what approach you want to take for BLACK? Would it be the compress feature, similar to "Nape to waist", or will it be a target to raise just the breasts? Latter is probably harder to do, but I think it would be worth it, thought the first approach seems easier to do). In other words, will you compress the entire segment to close the distance between the bottom of the arms and the place where the breasts really take form, or will you just morph the breast area?

By the way, there are other enhancements I could mention, but I focused mainly on the torso for this post.


Thanks by the way,
Raz.
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