MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby brkurt » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:40 pm

MargaretToigo wrote:Now, I could probably get better results fitting the dress on the tights and skirt helpers, rather than the human, but in my experience, the armpit distortion during posing thing happens slightly less when the human is used, but then the fit in rest pose is more universal when helpers are used.


It is definitely not the same distortion. (Take a closer look). There is a sudden gradation to humerus (upper arm) from deltoid (shoulder) that doesn't happen in my model's garment.

You will need to follow the edge loops around the armpit until you find the one vertex that has been mis-assigned. I use the Object Properties panel, opened with the 'n' key. You can then control the influence on this vertex by changing Vertex Weights.

At this point, I would have to say the problem is in the MakeClothes code; it would have to be rewritten for my 'shoulder-harness' approach. That's one of the reasons I've stayed away from using MC for the time being.

Notice how the 'ring's around the shoulder deform very differently from the problem you had with shoulder deformations in your suit.

The difference between your garment and mine is the weight painting. I used the automatic weight painting available in the Parent to Armature (Ctrl - p) command set. It is a bit of overkill, but works in simple garments.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby MargaretToigo » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:28 pm

brkurt wrote:It is definitely not the same distortion. (Take a closer look). There is a sudden gradation to humerus (upper arm) from deltoid (shoulder) that doesn't happen in my model's garment.


It's the same distortion when it's posed because the armpit distortion is caused by a bug in MakeClothes (the above pics are the result of running the dress through MakeClothes), according to one of the mods/devs who commented upthread.

It's likely assigning vertices around the chest, shoulders and armpits incorrectly. The vertices and edge loops in that area are all rather close together, so the algorithm probably gets confused about which clothing vertices go to which body vertices. And it seems to be compounded as the poly counts increase. This problem is easily fixed with a little weight painting in Blender.

But the distortion problem is twofold here, because there are the distortions from posing --- fixable with weight paint in Blender -- and then there are the distortions that result from changing the age, weight, proportions, etc of the human while the human is still in rest pose -- I realize the limitations of universally fitting clothes across genders. The latter is more problematic because if something looks bad in rest, it's gonna look even worse when it gets deformed/posed.

brkurt wrote:At this point, I would have to say the problem is in the MakeClothes code; it would have to be rewritten for my 'shoulder-harness' approach. That's one of the reasons I've stayed away from using MC for the time being.


I can make or edit any clothes mesh in Blender and parent it to an armature with automatic weights without ever using MakeHuman for anything but making a rigged unclothed human. I have gone with that workflow for items that have tris and ngons when it would be more trouble to fix the topology for MakeClothes than to just parent the item to a nude or semi-clothed human imported into Blender.

I never expected MakeHuman or MakeClothes to work perfectly with little to no need to make adjustments in Blender. You have to edit all the materials if you're gonna use Cycles. Even in good ol' Blender Render, some editing has to be done because oftentimes the specular settings are way off, making everything look plasticky. And there's always some weight paining that needs to be done to fine tune deformations.

To me, MakeHuman is a timesaver. It's really convenient to import a character who's already rigged and clothed. Except for modeling a realistic human body, I can do all of that myself, but I figure why not use this tool that gets me halfway to production quality just with the initial import.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby MargaretToigo » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:08 am

Okay, I got it close enough. It's far from perfect, but it fits a lot of different body types. I will upload this to the user assets. Everything I put here is CC0, so if anyone can improve up on anything, please do.

suit models.png
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby joepal » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:30 am

MargaretToigo wrote:... Everything I put here is CC0 ...


For which I'm very grateful. :-)

Atm this means I'm considering to pick a few of your extra materials for the standard assets to include in the next release of MH.
Joel Palmius (LinkedIn)
MakeHuman Infrastructure Manager
http://www.palmius.com/joel
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby wolgade » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:13 am

joepal wrote:I'm considering to pick a few of your extra materials for the standard assets to include in the next release of MH.

Very good idea. Please, do so!
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby MargaretToigo » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:22 pm

joepal wrote:
MargaretToigo wrote:... Everything I put here is CC0 ...


For which I'm very grateful. :-)

Atm this means I'm considering to pick a few of your extra materials for the standard assets to include in the next release of MH.


Really? That's so cool. Use whatever you want, I don't even need credit. Just knowing that I helped to improve MakeHuman in a small way is rather satisfying.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby wolgade » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:13 pm

MargaretToigo wrote:Just knowing that I helped to improve MakeHuman in a small way is rather satisfying.
Well, if it's so easy :) : You helped to improve MH in many ways. I got some inspiration from you, which I will need to fix an animation. You ask interesting questions and give answers, which are worth reading.You publish interesting stuff. Whatever is good in this community, It's also because of you.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby grinsegold » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:39 pm

Thx for your efforts. When i first saw your MAGA cap, i rolled my eyes, since nations are an obstacle for humanity's future, but you seem to be a nice person, so i would be glad if i can help. So here's my workaround:
Export your model twice, aged and default. Open the default in another blend-session, do nothing and save it to your temp-folder (or whereever you will find it in two minutes to delete it again).
In the blend with your senior, append theundistorted cloth. Maybe you also want to think about using that undistorted mesh as shapekey, so you can easily change the shape from there.
To make it work on the armature you will probably have to set the armature modifier and the parenting in the object tab to the actual armature.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby MargaretToigo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:01 pm

Well, thank you all so much.

I am glad I could be of some assistance, but I have gotten a lot more out of MakeHuman and this forum than I will ever be able to put back in.
MakeHuman is a very useful tool. And there is a real wealth of information on many topics here, which I refer to often.

I did the MAGA hat for a project and I shared it here because it's one of the first clothing assets I created myself using MakeClothes.
Now, I've made clothing meshes in Blender that never went through MakeClothes (tris, ngons, too many materials), and I have run lots of other people's stuff through MakeClothes (obviously not shareable here), but the hat was something I made from scratch and compiled with MakeClothes.

The politics of the hat are unimportant in the context of it being a clothing mesh because it is an asset that can be used in projects that are positive, negative or neutral toward the MAGA man and his movement.
I do believe that, in this day and age of jet engines and worldwide communications networks, we are all globalists whether we wanna acknowledge it or not.

I have foreground humans and background humans, and I will very likely use grinsegold's method of importing the undistorted mesh, appending and parenting it to a senior human's armature for foreground humans that need it.

I can get a bit obsessive about small details that no one but me actually ever notices because they're in the background, but I only worry about that when I have a deadline -- those projects are usually pretty basic, though.
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Re: MakeClothes Universal Fit -- or at least close.

Postby MargaretToigo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:41 pm

I have learned quite a lot about MakeClothes and how and when it works or doesn't, its features, limitations and bugs -- but I still have no clue whatsoever about what that Offset Scaling thing is supposed to do.

With the suit, I got the best fit and deformations when I used the tights and only the tights to "Create Vertex Groups From Selection" -- I also assigned the appropriate vertices on the body to the Delete group. I tried many other ways, which I have described upthread, and of all the results, this was the relative best for this particular mesh.

What I have discovered is that in its current state, MakeClothes does not produce flawless or even nearly flawless results on complicated asymmetrical meshes, and that a truly universal fit is not possible for most items -- though some can get pretty close to it. But for my purposes, it doesn't really need to be any of those things as I spend a few minutes making a character in MakeHuman, and then hours or even days refining it in Blender. The power of MakeClothes is the convenience of being able to dress characters in MakeHuman, which puts you halfway to production before you even import them into Blender.

Here is a better render of my suit models, it has anti-aliasing and better color balance...

suit models2.png
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