Help with proxy creation

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Help with proxy creation

Postby malistaticy » Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:56 pm

Hello, I am trying to make a proxy topology. it works pretty well except for an issue where a part of the model doesnt seem to transform symmetrically when adjusting sliders.
i created it by editing a proxy from the asset repository with blender 2.92, then using makeclothes2 plugin to export it as mhclo then changing file extension to .proxy.

i have verified that the mesh is perfectly symmetrical and i believe i have set up the right/left/mid vertex groups up properly.
observe the vertices of the anus and vagina displacing asymmetrically when using the gender slider:
Image
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Re: Help with proxy creation

Postby joepal » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:02 pm

It is probably a question of vertices on the proxy being mapped against suboptimal verts on the body. Particularly in the genitals area, the resolution of the helper mesh is such that you might want to help MakeClothes along a bit by defining matching vertex groups on proxy and body in order to be explicit about what should be matched against what.
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Re: Help with proxy creation

Postby malistaticy » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:27 pm

joepal wrote:defining matching vertex groups on proxy and body in order to be explicit about what should be matched against what.

i only see groups "Body, Right, Left, Mid" on the base mesh i imported, when you say "define" should i create more vertex groups on both base mesh and my proxy or something?
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Re: Help with proxy creation

Postby joepal » Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:48 pm

Yes. A vertex on the clothes/proxy will only be matched with a body vertex if they are in vertex groups with the same name. The mid/right/center groups are just examples.

So you could have "leftgroin", "labia" etc groups to steer matching more in detail.

Groups on the body may overlap, but vertices on the proxy may only belong to one group each.
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Re: Help with proxy creation

Postby malistaticy » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:55 pm

Thanks, I was able to get it pretty close with 6 extra groups (left vagina, mid vagina, right vagina, same for anus). It still does it just a bit which is a shame, but it's far more workable at least. while its a lot better, its still more than the other proxies ive downloaded with similar geometry. do you have any extra tips or am i just going to have to deal with snapping to symmetry in blender to get it mirrored properly afterward?
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Re: Help with proxy creation

Postby joepal » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:17 am

The genitals area was always tricky, with a lots of vertices packed tightly in an internal area. My guess is you won't be able to get it completely perfect by only using makeclothes.

The only other tool you have are rigid groups ("three vertices method"), see bottom of http://www.makehumancommunity.org/wiki/ ... tex-Groups. But I don't think this is very relevant in your case.

Anyway, ff you have suggestions on how MC could behave in a better way, we'll welcome these. Maybe you have illustrations / screenshots of specific cases where a vertices gets matches strangely and hints on which vertices it would be a better fit for the match?
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Re: Help with proxy creation

Postby malistaticy » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:11 am

joepal wrote:Anyway, ff you have suggestions on how MC could behave in a better way, we'll welcome these. Maybe you have illustrations / screenshots of specific cases where a vertices gets matches strangely and hints on which vertices it would be a better fit for the match?


maybe if there was a checkbox or something similar where you can have makehuman to try to enforce symmetrical weighting?
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Re: Help with proxy creation

Postby punkduck » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:22 pm

Hi

Unfortunately this all does not really help. The proxy you use is nearly identical to the base mesh in all regions, so there the distance is 0 and it behaves exactly identical to the base mesh. So when distance is 0 makeclothes simply copies the vertex.

For the vagina the program looks for the nearest 3 vertices using mathematical functions, partly containing trigonometric functions and so it is just not 100% exact after a few steps of calculation. A vertex (-1,0,0) will not lead to the same result as the mirrored vertex (1,0,0). A tiny difference between left and right and vertex would try to follow at least one different vertex on one side. In rest-position this is of course not visible, because it is not deformed. But when you move the slider it becomes visible.

Workarounds:

You can use only 3 vertices as a reference to follow (a triangle in crotch area, one vertex left leg, one right leg and one in the middle to follow exactly these). But that will give strange results where the zones are connected to the rest.

I had exactly the same problem. When I export the character to blender I always have to recreate symmetry in Blender (even for non-proxies sometimes) but only for the body, not for clothes. But I need symmetry for different reasons because blender is no longer able to find the proper corresponding vertices for mirroring.

Finally I wrote a small blender plugin to create a symmetry table one time with the original proxy (or mesh). This symmetry table I can later use in Blender again to symmetrize same proxy as long as the vertex order does not change. Now the table helps to find the corresponding vertices. Since then I use this method for all, which was symmetric and should be symmetric after some changes, The table of the base mesh is used inside maketarget btw.

Software is here (you only need the stuff in folder blender2_8):

https://github.com/black-punkduck/MakeHuman-Helpers

And a small tutorial here:

https://github.com/black-punkduck/MakeHuman-Helpers/wiki/blender279weightplugin.md

And inside MH? To conclude: the concept of MH will not really allow a 100% symmetry for proxies atm.

It could be achieved when the mesh loaded always would have a symmetry table like I did in the plugin. Atm. this information is lost for proxies. This symmetry table needs not only to know which vertex is left or right side and how to correspond, it also needs to know what is mid because these vertices must be pushed back to x=0 when symmetry is generated (or correspond to themselves which means the same of course). Not that easy to be implemented atm :?
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Re: Help with proxy creation

Postby malistaticy » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:33 pm

punkduck wrote: ...

wow thanks :D
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