bumpTexture = normal map?

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bumpTexture = normal map?

Postby grinsegold » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:08 pm

When i create a cloth, inside the mhmat file the variable for the normal map is called bumpTexture. But on the upöoad i can choose between bump- and normalmap. So, if my normalmaps are bumpTextures - how do normalTextures look like?
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Re: bumpTexture = normal map?

Postby joepal » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:55 pm

I've been debating with myself whether to remove a few of these, since it's doubtful if most users will ever understand the difference between various bump mapping techniques. Originally I added them since they were mentioned in the MH source code:

Code: Select all
def configureShading(self, diffuse=None, bump = None, normal=None, displacement=None, spec = None, vertexColors = None):
        """
        Configure shader options and set the necessary properties based on
        the material configuration of this object.
        This can be done without an actual shader being set for this object.
        Call this method when changes are made to the material property.
        """
        self.material.configureShading(diffuse, bump, normal, displacement, spec, vertexColors)


But basically, bump/normal/displace are three different ways to achieve largely the same thing. I find this article instructive:

http://blog.digitaltutors.com/bump-norm ... ment-maps/

In practice, they end up as input for different sockets in cycles nodes. For example, normal maps ideally end up as input for the "normal" socket:

maps1.png


While displacement maps work as input for the displacement socket on the output node:

maps2.png


.. and bump maps work through the "bump" node which then produces normals:

maps3.png


If you know what you're doing (I don't), you can probably produce very interesting and detailed effects by mixing the three. I find plain old bump maps the easiest to understand though.
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Re: bumpTexture = normal map?

Postby grinsegold » Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:21 pm

Sorry, it seems as if i didn't make the point. The point that confuses me, is:
When i have a normal map for the mesh in its blender internal material, and i clothify it, then in the mhmat file the variable for my normal map is called "bumpTexture",... and after checking a suspicion i now realize that it won't import the normal map at all! Finally i understand the comments. What am i doing wrong? Does MH fetch the material data from cycles now? Maybe i checked something in the texture settings that should be untouched?
Here's what i set in order to give the cloth a normal map:
Normal issue.png
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Re: bumpTexture = normal map?

Postby joepal » Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:28 pm

Ok, that's beyond me. I never tried applying a normal map via makeclothes.

I can say for certain that MakeClothes is built for use with blender internal rather than with cycles though, so that's not the problem here.

I'd suggest making a formal bug report at the bugtracker, in the hope that someone who understands the structure of MakeClothes code takes a look at it.
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Re: bumpTexture = normal map?

Postby MTKnife » Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:10 pm

Bump and normal maps don't show up in MakeHuman, but they do show up in Blender when you export through MHX.
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Re: bumpTexture = normal map?

Postby duststorm » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:00 am

The material format in MH was primarily intended for configuring the shading within MH itself. But since it follows the general lighting equasion very closely, it should map to various renderers' material settings pretty easily.

There is definitely a difference between normal mapping and bump mapping, and while bumpmapping has mostly been surpassed by normal mapping, it has its uses in distinct situations. More generally, bump mapping is better suited for very small surface details like pores, as it responds better to mip mapping or aliasing effects, is reusable on multiple geometries (as it is not geometry dependent) and can also more easily be used as a tiled repeating pattern for closeup details.
You can read here for a more detailed explanation: http://blog.digitaltutors.com/bump-norm ... ment-maps/

bumpTextures are greyscale images, normalmap textures are the ones that usually look purple-ish.

Shaders in MakeHuman have not been finished yet, and the uber shader that incorporates all the material settings in MH is still on the roadmap. One day this will simply work. But if you select the right type of shader in MH, most of the effects will already work in some way.

As for how MakeClothes exports material properties: it's possible there are bugs in there, if you find them please report them. I have not tested these myself. I guess best is to check the mhmat file that MakeClothes produced, and see if that makes sense.
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