Body study as seen from my perspective

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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby joepal » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:54 am

In the end I had to look at the reflections in the eyes to see that there was a cube hanging in the air, as well as a flat white rectangle floor. Combined with some of the indentations in the clavicle/throat area and that the ear looked a bit too hard, I could feel reasonable safe it wasn't a photo.

I love what you've done with the hair though. That's usually the giveaway: particle hair looking too artificial. But not in this case.
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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby wolgade » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:00 pm

Well, I haven't been around for two days and obviously missed something. :)

I would have thought to see the reference image instead of a render. This is very close to the real thing.

joepal wrote:"Not satisfied" he says.

Mindfront will be satisfied when his renders actually look better than photographs. :lol:
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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby Mindfront » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:25 pm

joepal wrote:"Not satisfied" he says. Me, I had to take a closer look to convince myself it wasn't a photo.

In the end I had to look at the reflections in the eyes to see that there was a cube hanging in the air, as well as a flat white rectangle floor. Combined with some of the indentations in the clavicle/throat area and that the ear looked a bit too hard, I could feel reasonable safe it wasn't a photo.
:D The eyes reflects the HDRi by "zbyg" from http://zbyg.deviantart.com/art/HDRi-Pack-1-97402522 "studio018" and "studio019" is my favorite when making material.
When I did Zakiya and Jennifer's textures I was relatively new at texturing and baking normal maps. This close-up renders has revealed more flaws to take care of. As I don't want to redo the whole texturing even though I know I could do better, this will be a patch up.

joepal wrote:I love what you've done with the hair though. That's usually the giveaway: particle hair looking too artificial. But not in this case.
It's the same hair used on Zakiya in my scene "The guitar player" and uploaded in punkduck's "strand hair for MH models in Blender" viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13734 But there is some minor difference in the material and soon the final touch will be done as Bellatrix has pointed to me to try making it a little bit more sprawling. The final result will be uploaded as a particle scalp in "Custom content". (thank you punkduck and wolgade for getting me on the right track as it had taken me a lot longer time to get this result without your hair guidance.)


punkduck wrote:Joepal is right.
But I also know the feeling that there could be some imperfect details we just aren't aware of ... (and only the creator is able to figure that out, because everything looks perfect for all others) :lol:
Didn't you notice pixel nr 5482 has wrong color? ;) I hate to be this silly and thats why I am not fitted for this kind of work. Luckly this is only for fun and I don't have any plans do anything other than personal scenes to let of some creatively steam and to learn more about MakeHuman and Blender along the way.

punkduck wrote:This picture is absolutely convincing. As you mentioned somewhere above it is this "to make her to not look perfect as imperfection is perfection". But she is perfect when you consider skin, hair etc. and she also is beautiful.
:D Zakiya (and I) was all over the place over your kind words.

punkduck wrote:Unfortunately I didn't find an African character I like to model until now. I don't know how much time you need to create her, but in my case I always need for the first version something between 40-60 hours. So I take some girl that I really like, otherwise the endurance will fade away :? .

And when I'm successful one day, she wouldn't be as perfect as yours ... :shock:
The color part of the skin I dont remember exactly how long it took as I was struggeling learning along the way but a rough estimation, yes about 40-60 hours. I actually begun the whole thing by baking a full body normal map to get that unevenness all body has and that took wery wery long time. To keep it relatively low poly and reusable I decided to use a normal map to enhance the details instead of sculpting.

The detailed steps for both of the skins (and remember at that time I was still learning both texturing and baking so it was many trial and errors).

1. Placing a default female MakeHuman over a 3D scan of a real body and bake a body normal map.
2. The color texturing.
3. Made a fine detail bump/displacement map from the color texture.
4. Loaded the fine detailed bump/displacement map to a default female MakeHuman body subdivided 5 levels and almost killed Blender. Baked from that body to a non subdivided mesh.

5. Overlayed the fine detailed normal map to the body normal map = one normal map.
6. The bump map was transformed to an specular map.
7. Added some more minor details on all maps and got excessive, one of my many flaws.

About a total of 1 to 2 month. The rest was different experimenting with getting the material to look "decent" enough for my purposes. Now it should not take more than 2 or 3 dedicated weeks to reach the same or even better result.


wolgade wrote:Well, I haven't been around for two days and obviously missed something. :)
I would have thought to see the reference image instead of a render. This is very close to the real thing.
Mindfront will be satisfied when his renders actually look better than photographs. :lol:
:lol: I am almost never fully satisfied with something I do as I think it always could been done better :ugeek: . And that is true, almost all things can be better done, except the wheel. My problem is to decide when it is enough and just have fun with what I have achieved without being a perfectionist stubborn nerd with decision anxiety. If I had this as a profession I would not have had it for a long time because I had been fired because of delivery problems. :oops:
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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby Mindfront » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:38 pm

I have had some fun making a "poster" or something. Here I also use a sun lamp and that is often a reason the skin doesnt look real. In this render Zakiya have coarser neck than now.
Poster_Zakiya_1.png
Zakiya in an action movie
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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby loki1950 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:03 pm

All art processes have the issue of when to stop the iterations it is not just an issue with visual art.The difference between amateur/pro comes down to knowing when to stop though several artists seem to ignore this ;)

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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby punkduck » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:21 pm

Mindfront wrote:I have had some fun making a "poster" or something. Here I also use a sun lamp and that is often a reason the skin doesnt look real. In this render Zakiya have coarser neck than now.


Mindfront, this is great. The majority of the cinema posters are not real, most posters are a kind of collage showing the actors or different scenes in a way, which is totally different from the movie itself.
Your poster is more real than the ones I modelled Wonder Woman from. Here is one presented by JoBlo Movie Network:

http://www.joblo.com/posters/images/full/wonder-woman-final-poster.jpg

And now find the mistakes. If you are not sure, what I'm speaking of, look at the debris flying around. These are simple rectangles :lol:
And the lightning is even more unreal ...
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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby Mindfront » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:31 am

loki1950 wrote:All art processes have the issue of when to stop the iterations it is not just an issue with visual art.The difference between amateur/pro comes down to knowing when to stop though several artists seem to ignore this ;)
To stop or not to stop is life greatest question :D

punkduck wrote:Mindfront, this is great. The majority of the cinema posters are not real, most posters are a kind of collage showing the actors or different scenes in a way, which is totally different from the movie itself.
Your poster is more real than the ones I modelled Wonder Woman from. Here is one presented by JoBlo Movie Network:
http://www.joblo.com/posters/images/full/wonder-woman-final-poster.jpg

And now find the mistakes. If you are not sure, what I'm speaking of, look at the debris flying around. These are simple rectangles :lol:
And the lightning is even more unreal ...
After looking at the Wonder Woman poster you linked to I also see those simple rectangles :lol: but yet it looks alright for the purpose. Maybe time to use your Wonder Woman assets and do an own interpretation :mrgreen: . I have never seen the movie, is it worth to watch?
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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby Mindfront » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:46 am

The base MakeHuman mesh is not bad but a normal map with small details like cellulites and medium body shapes can be useful.
To show how great impact a body normal map can have I did this example render using only a sun and point lamp to enhance the shadows. One big problem when using normal (and bump) maps is if it differs to much from the actual mesh angular distortions between shadow and illuminated area may be visible, especially when the light produces sharp shadows. The solution is to soften the shadows or subdivide the mesh further, or do some post editing in your favorite graphic program.
Body_Normal_Map_comparison.png
No normal map vs normal map


To continue with Zakiya, wearing punkduck's "brazilian bikini" found here http://www.makehumancommunity.org/cloth ... _slip.html and here http://www.makehumancommunity.org/cloth ... i_bra.html
Zakiya_bikini.png


And once again I could not resist of having some fun. For about a year ago I started to make an own earth and got the base idea for this scene. Since then it has been laying around and now I thought it was time to make it finished. Lit by only a sun lamp and an invisible blue globe and is post processed in Photoshop.
Mindfront_-_MakeHuman_Not_War.png
MakeHuman Not War
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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby punkduck » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:47 pm

Mindfront wrote:I have never seen the movie, is it worth to watch?


I first built the assets and then I was convinced by someone to watch the movie because of the wrong assets (sword and shield) and now you have both, the "dawn of justice" and "wonder woman 2017" versions. ;)

If you like a film where the leading actress (Gal Gadot) plays a comic character with super natural powers, but also is sometimes naive, sometimes is surprised about mankind, sometimes is angry, also shows empathy and has a good sense of humour (and therefore seems to be a normal human instead of being a superhero) then you should watch it. The topic is the first world war, which was the desaster starting the last century. And the last sentences in the film were:

"I used to want to save the world. To end war and bring peace to mankind. But then, I glimpsed the darkness that lives within their light. I learned that inside every one of them, there will always be both. The choice each must make for themselves - something no hero will ever defeat. I've touched the darkness that lives in between the light. Seen the worst of this world, and the best. Seen the terrible things men do to each other in the name of hatred, and the lengths they'll go to for love. Now I know. Only love can save this world. So I stay. I fight, and I give... for the world I know can be. This is my mission, now. Forever."

which was the reason for this emotional picture, which I did after watching the movie:

http://www.makehumancommunity.org/forum/download/file.php?id=5470&mode=view


Mindfront wrote:And once again I could not resist of having some fun. For about a year ago I started to make an own earth and got the base idea for this scene.


When you think of the location where the cradle of mankind is, if you also consider that especially Africa often has conflicts this image shows some kind of (idealized) hope for a better future. I really like it.

And it is great to see Zakiya wearing the bikini, so I now can see the details of the complete body. Sometimes I ask myself, who inspired you to create her exactly the way she is ...
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Re: Body study as seen from my perspective

Postby wolgade » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:09 am

What a great image. And I still can't believe that the lady is just a bunch of vertices.
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