Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby joepal » Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:49 am

spamrakuen wrote:My three cents;

1 - Focus on MFBP. Or, in other words, convert MH in a Blender addon.
-- Why?
--- Many people knows how to use it, and love it. This should help growing MH community (so, more assets for MH).
--- Wasting time trying to give MH features already available in Blender is... well... a waste of time (IMHO).
...
Some of my issues may be already been "fixed" / workarounded with MFBP.

So, I believe that many potential users just ignore this software, not because is aging, just because its hard to use. I'we wasted a lot of time creating my own workflow mh -> my games, and I'm quite sure many people just find MH too hard to be used for their pourposes.


One trigger of this conversation was that I expressed my wish to be able to focus more on MPFB and that Punk and Elv then stepped up on wanting to take charge of the development of the MakeHuman standalone app. So it isn't as if we're saying that we should put less effort into MPFB. MPFB fits my own use cases better, and I think it might be a good fit for many others too. So that is where I will put the majority of my effort.

There is no one size fits all solution here. Blender isn't a good fit for everyone. For someone who is not already an experienced Blender user and who just wants to create a quick image for something, Blender simply isn't an option. The uphill of learning it is too steep.

So for many use cases and groups of users, a modern version of MakeHuman will be desired.

Luckily this isn't an either-or kind of decision, quite the contrary. With the basic technology (such as algorithms and file formats) and assets being shared, the wider community will benefit from having several parallel tracks for solving different use cases for different categories of users.

spamrakuen wrote:I'm a coder, I can create my own tools and dig into undocumented code or unkown file formats, but if you want good artits contributing with nice assets, make their life as easy as possible.

I would like to help, but I've two little children and almost zero free time.


Not to hijack this thread, but if at some point you manage to get some spare time, then testing and feeback for MPFB is needed too. Maybe some of the workarounds you've implemented might be possible to implement in some form in MPFB instead of on top of MHX?.
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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby spamrakuen » Tue Feb 28, 2023 3:54 pm

joepal wrote:One trigger of this conversation was that I expressed my wish to be able to focus more on MPFB and that Punk and Elv then stepped up on wanting to take charge of the development of the MakeHuman standalone app. So it isn't as if we're saying that we should put less effort into MPFB. MPFB fits my own use cases better, and I think it might be a good fit for many others too. So that is where I will put the majority of my effort.

There is no one size fits all solution here. Blender isn't a good fit for everyone. For someone who is not already an experienced Blender user and who just wants to create a quick image for something, Blender simply isn't an option. The uphill of learning it is too steep.

So for many use cases and groups of users, a modern version of MakeHuman will be desired.

Luckily this isn't an either-or kind of decision, quite the contrary. With the basic technology (such as algorithms and file formats) and assets being shared, the wider community will benefit from having several parallel tracks for solving different use cases for different categories of users.


Please take a look to this
https://code.blender.org/2022/11/blender-apps/

This is just a design and still is not available, but could help you in the future to make a newer standalone app.

joepal wrote:Not to hijack this thread, but if at some point you manage to get some spare time, then testing and feeback for MPFB is needed too. Maybe some of the workarounds you've implemented might be possible to implement in some form in MPFB instead of on top of MHX?.


Right now I'm not using MPFB, discovered it when I already made my workflow, but if I start to use it and can help some way, I'll do.
By the way, the last time I used it, I was only able to set one pose (the t-pose) and couldn't use all the poses in my makehuman installation. This feature is working in the latest versions?
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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby joepal » Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:00 pm

spamrakuen wrote:By the way, the last time I used it, I was only able to set one pose (the t-pose) and couldn't use all the poses in my makehuman installation. This feature is working in the latest versions?


No, there isn't any support for BVH-style poses in MPFB yet. There's a math knot to be solved which I stumble on.

Poses in JSON-style can be created and re-used inside MPFB though.
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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby tomcat » Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:08 pm

The question of digital value entry is off the table. But I haven't found anywhere a description of where it is, only knew that it was added in the alpha. And I came across it, in fact, by accident.

Well, yes — as expected — makes the job a lot easier.

I suppose if you look hard, you can find a lot more interesting features.
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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby pianodavy » Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:54 pm

I'm a 3d artist and I'd be happy to help in any way the administrative team might see useful.
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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby Elvaerwyn » Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:30 am

pianodavy wrote:I'm a 3d artist and I'd be happy to help in any way the administrative team might see useful.


I will answer you in pm Pianodavy! Ty so much for your interest! :D

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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby punkduck » Sun Feb 18, 2024 6:18 pm

Hi

For all who want to know, if the idea is still alive?
Yes it is and no, I am not dead ... just older. Invisible on github the new version grows. It is using python3, OpenGL (min 3.3) and PySide6. Tests are on Linux and Windows.

Atm nothing is stable and a lot is still test.

Not only humans are possible, in theory all other objects as well. No need for only triangles or only quads. Although good base meshes usually are quads (reason is that subdivision usually looks better). The base mesh can be placed in user space as well.
(Sorry my art is just crap it should be only a demo). OpenGL does not have quads anymore (since years) ... so I invested a long time to rethink that (triangulation etc.). Perspective can be used as well (there will be more like grids etc. later).

And for all Vulkan lovers: Vulkan and OpenGL use more or less the same shading language, but the shader pipeline of Vulkan is more efficient. The technical possibilities of the shader is limited by your card. So I tried to first understand the background just not to be part of a discussion with no technical knowledge at all (okay these people now discuss AI :mrgreen: ) . Maybe I will change that in future but atm I don't see any reason to do that. And for me Metal is a music style (I also like), not a shader. I wonder that apple thinks being proprietary is a good idea after using a UNIX like filesystem which allowed me to even put a lot of Linux stuff on a Mac. I left Apple when they want to know what I do with my box and had to be registered with my real name. For windows I cannot avoid that but no Windows version is a no-go.

spider_alarm.png
weird creatures


A skybox I also added, but atm. all is blinn/phong shading with 3 lamps (configurable with a light setup window). A matcap/litsphere will be added soon to avoid the artifacts with hair (flipped normals .. my own fault, but one can now see the internal triangle mesh)

sliders.png
better sliders for exact modelling

A lot of people wanted better sliders .. here is my version, which saves space when not activated but also can be used with 3 different methods when changing a target.

I just started with the repository ("equipment"). A new filter system was added, the tags are partly recalculated with an algorithm and author and filename are added ... which allows a simple search as well. Shortcut buttons to reach the tools are in "production" ... reason for the '?' buttons.

repo1.png
she certainly needs clothes


As an old fashioned C programmer and someone who wants to know what I use and for debugging there is an Info tool included, which shows, what is in use or known to the program including path names. No excuse anymore for all those who do not understand their own filesystem. :lol:

Okay. We will open the repo, when more is visible and the system is more stable. It is not easy and there are a lot of drawbacks. Especially the technical approach to add new features + ideas and make it compatible to old one is a challenge.

Greetings from the undercover programmer :mrgreen:
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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby punkduck » Fri May 10, 2024 6:40 pm

Slowly I do step by step forward, I reached 10000 lines of code + 3000 lines of JSON files.

Meanwhile I added a small asset editor which allows to change tags (create own tags which override given ones) and do a thumbnail for assets. Information of own and original tags are no longer in "filecaches", I use sqlite (which is "included" in python) for that.
asset_editor.png


With this editor I now get this view, when I use a filter for dresses:
clothes_sort.png


I started with skeleton and skinning.
notbad.png


Trying an animation with MakeHuman ... I tried that with existing version of MakeHuman, but always saw only the last frame after some time. QT will not refresh the view. The correct way is to use a cyclical QTimer() which should then paint the frames.

In the example: My walk cycle is just a quick "hack" derived from a bvh made for a different skeleton and the cycle was not really a good ... but it is working. It is still slow, but better than I expected for a first try

walkinplace.mp4
walking inside MakeHuman 2.0
(572.4 KiB) Downloaded 29 times


To conclude: still a lot stuff is missing, some other stuff will be re-designed or re-arranged, but I need "some buttons" that it at least shows sth. on the screen,
If all essential tools will work, I will open the repo for first tests to the public in a few months.

I also have some annoying bugs here and there, like only the fingers are distorted when posed or delete groups sometimes are not working. Usually I find the solutions for these bugs when I try to solve sth. different. A good example are the artifacts in the hair from last images. It is solved. And again it was a stupid error with a python loop just leaving out the last value :roll:

Greetings Punkduck
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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby tomcat » Fri May 10, 2024 8:22 pm

punkduck wrote:Trying an animation with MakeHuman ...

If MakeHuman will support animation, game developers will pay attention to it. This means we can expect an influx of programmers willing to help with development.
I will open the repo for first tests to the public in a few months.

I wonder if I'll live to see it.
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Re: Recruiting for Makehumans Future!

Postby punkduck » Thu May 16, 2024 9:22 pm

Well to visualize an animation made from BVH would not do or help much for game developer.

If we can add animations ourselves maybe. Atm I just try to have all the features from old version (mostly). Then first try some small improvements and then the real new ideas. And honestly there are often drawbacks. And some bugs I am aware of. But when it is 10'o clock at night I am mostly not able to solve complex errors after a normal 8 hour job. So I do stuff where half of the brain is allowed to sleep.

The expression editor looks pretty easy for sth. to do a night.

Until I found out to make an average angle between two bone-poses can only be calculated by the use of quaternions. :geek: :ugeek:

At least tomcat might know that. :mrgreen: That way is called slerp (spherical lerp) in Godot (well not only there).

So if your partner is smiling at you and also changes mouth to give a kiss there are two combined poses involved.
The partner usually does that without thinking too much about it -- well mostly at least :lol:

But we unfortunately need to figure out how to combine rotations on the same bone.
  • recalulate all angles from Euler to Quaternion of both poses/each bone
  • use quaternion- slerp for both poses (as a ratio between two 3d vectors)
  • quaternion-multiply these poses (this usually means to average them)
  • and change back to Euler, now use rotated bones

No I did not find it out directly, but I learnt myself that there was no intuitive solution to calculate a ratio between to vector poses.
Yes the old version of MakeHuman also did it like this. But I now mostly understand why all people use this algorithm :)

For those who want to impress others with math, learn this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXajpAy5-UI

quaterions.png
never without quaternions
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