Rules

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Rules

Postby grinsegold » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:19 pm

When i read the rules for this contest i really was surprised by the liberal conditions, but today admin Manuel posted a clarification. I understand his post as directly provoked by my contribution. Now i wonder if my image will be considered as art or if it already violates the new (but in fact three years old) rules. Did i mark the limits or am i already off? Since i avoided nudity, but my submission surely could be regarded as containing sexual aspects (though a child would most likely not be harmed mentally by viewing it because it won't understand it at all ... but he who excuses, accuses himself, right?).

So please, Manuel, tell me, is it art or pornography? Unfortunately your post is locked, so i hope this reaches you.
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Re: Rules

Postby SaltyCowdawg » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:55 pm

grinsegold wrote: tell me, is it art or pornography?




"I know it when I see it" -- Potter Stewart (c) 1964

My litmus test defining the line between art and pornography (or at the very least erotica) is "how would my Grammie react to it." Before you say "well she's old" or something along with it my grandmother was not only a fairly "with it" woman when she was in her eighties she was a flapper in her youth.

While I get the meaning of your "art" I think a picture depicting a woman with a "strap on" having sex with another woman certainly crosses the line. Just my 0.02 worth...
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Re: Rules

Postby grinsegold » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:38 pm

She does not have sex with the other, she is raping her. Our system is brutal, so my (self-)accusation has to be the same. The t-shirt i'm wearing is a crime against humanity. But if it was more expensive i might have chosen a cheaper one. There is no guilt, we are just stucked in a system as brutal as nature itself. Of course i know now that this our system is a dead born child and that there is no real need to fight against anything because this would only elongate the pain before the beast eats itself, but i still haven't managed to get dull and ignorant enough to stop screaming via pictures. I think in pictures. Pictures come to me and it feels like being forced to give them birth. I just can't resist (that's why mh is so precious to me. Modelling a human character each time you need one is tedious. In fact my motivation to participate in this contest was partly to give something back, some wow for the viewer). Sorry. I'm an old fart. A bitter old artist. Just ignore me.

Btw: i really like your litmus test. I recommend it for every single action, word or thought, using your grandma, Jesus, Buddha or any other projection you need to address the best in you. Again, on a cosmic level this might be a waste of time, or meaningless, but hey, we are obviously not jet ready for higher philosophy, so: thanks for your comment.

(funny that you quoted Steward, since he decided to allow the presentation of the film: "..., and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.”. A good sign? ;) Joepal, Manuel, you are Steward now. Please pass the sentence, i promise to be nice.)
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Re: Rules

Postby brkurt » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:28 pm

grinsegold wrote:She does not have sex with the other, she is raping her. Our system is brutal, so my (self-)accusation has to be the same. The t-shirt i'm wearing is a crime against humanity. But if it was more expensive i might have chosen a cheaper one. There is no guilt, we are just stucked in a system as brutal as nature itself. Of course i know now that this our system is a dead born child and that there is no real need to fight against anything because this would only elongate the pain before the beast eats itself, but i still haven't managed to get dull and ignorant enough to stop screaming via pictures. I think in pictures. Pictures come to me and it feels like being forced to give them birth. I just can't resist (that's why mh is so precious to me. Modelling a human character each time you need one is tedious. In fact my motivation to participate in this contest was partly to give something back, some wow for the viewer). Sorry. I'm an old fart. A bitter old artist. Just ignore me.

Btw: i really like your litmus test. I recommend it for every single action, word or thought, using your grandma, Jesus, Buddha or any other projection you need to address the best in you. Again, on a cosmic level this might be a waste of time, or meaningless, but hey, we are obviously not jet ready for higher philosophy, so: thanks for your comment.

(funny that you quoted Steward, since he decided to allow the presentation of the film: "..., and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.”. A good sign? ;) Joepal, Manuel, you are Steward now. Please pass the sentence, i promise to be nice.)


There are some other aspects to consider beside pornography (I use 'Game of Thrones' as my litmus test, personally) .
How many of the objects in this scene were created by you? Did you create: (1) the building; (2) the statue details; (3) the scales complete with chains?.

If you created the clothing, and belting, what software did you use? Makehuman is open source, but Marvelous Designer is not, and I'm thinking you used a proprietary app for your clothing, folding and draping.

This is important information to put in your work, because the dev team need to insure there are no copyright infringements.

That's why--for example--there are so many posts about how to create clothing on the forums.
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Re: Rules

Postby wolgade » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:42 pm

In my opinion this picture is not pornographic at all, because it's statement and intention doesn't have to do anything with sex. It's a political statement and yes, it is visualized in a drastical way, but for me this is Freedom of Speech.
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Re: Rules

Postby grinsegold » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:51 pm

brkurt wrote:
There are some other aspects to consider beside pornography (I use 'Game of Thrones' as my litmus test, personally) .
How many of the objects in this scene were created by you? Did you create: (1) the building; (2) the statue details; (3) the scales complete with chains?.

If you created the clothing, and belting, what software did you use? Makehuman is open source, but Marvelous Designer is not, and I'm thinking you used a proprietary app for your clothing, folding and draping.

This is important information to put in your work, because the dev team need to insure there are no copyright infringements.

That's why--for example--there are so many posts about how to create clothing on the forums.


As i said, i roughly sketched the characters in mh and did all the rest in blender. The things i did not make on my own were properly mentioned: the copper-texture (as a startingpoint in a big nodetree), the left one of the two fonts (distorted and exported as .png with gimp. Yes, gimp, what else?) and the two HDRs i used for lighting and background. That means that the rest is handmade - in blender. No, that's wrong. The diffuse- and bumpmaps for the building were created in blender AND gimp, using parts of good reference photos as stencil, ...and my wacom intuos. I take it as a compliment from you if you impute to me using some fancy secret helpers, but no, this can all - more or less easily - be done in blender (Liberty's head was challenging - i had to get it right. I'm satisfied and i can now delete a GB of reference pictures. Did you know that there is not a single usable picture out there showing her profile?). I have the blendfile as proof and am more than willing to show it an admin if needed.

Btw: I don't know game of thrones. I know it's something in TV. But if you want to learn how to model cloth in blender, for example, i recommend you watch less TV but more tuts on youtube. And practice, practice, practice. The first step is the biggest. Happy blending ;)

PS.: I wasn't sure if i should make a tutorial on how you can use sewing drafts (is that the right word?) and blenders cloth-sewing-springs to create any cloth you can get the drafts for, but now i'm sure i will. But not soon. Look up my youtube-channel from time to time.
Last edited by grinsegold on Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:17 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Rules

Postby brkurt » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:27 pm

You have come up with an excellent idea. All contestants should submit their model files, Blender or otherwise.

That would make copyright checks much easier. :)
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Re: Rules

Postby grinsegold » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:59 pm

i totally agree with that, but it's enough to proof your work if you win. They have better things to do than checking blendfiles. On other contest sites where they even pay money or goods as price it's already common. Guess joepal didn't expect the passion that some of us developed. Poor him...
Last edited by grinsegold on Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rules

Postby grinsegold » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:10 pm

wolgade wrote:
...Freedom of Speech.


Nicely put. I feel better now. But this is not democracy. I accepted the rules, and that contains my agreement for any decision that the admins will make. And being obstracized is not the end of the world. I made some of you discussing, and maybe some people shared it already, so i had my audience anyways. Everything's fine.
Last edited by grinsegold on Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rules

Postby Déesse » Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:00 am

First I was a bit distracted and had to take a closer look. My question at this point is: Would I discuss this scene with my students? With my daughters? Yes I would. There is a message that can be read. And the best thing art can do is making people using their brain. This is much more than just being a decoration. And when, after reflecting what you see, you can say: Yes, I can share this, everything is good.

I'll show you another sculpture with a similar composition and some similar details. It's from an exhibition some years ago, is called "Triad", made by Bonnie Collura. Without knowing the context (analogy to water and rivers) you will not understand the symbols. But pornography is intended here and religious symbols might be offending some people. It was a public sculpture and discussing this with my students was indeed a problem for me...

I like the way this contest is going, and I don't know if it is really necessary to vote?

Triad - Bonnie Collura.jpg
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